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Author Topic: The Truth About Hamas Rockets . . .  (Read 9012 times)
GlasgowBandit
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« on: January 13, 2009, 07:31:37 AM »

Decent read IMO.

The Truth About Those Hamas Rockets

By Dennis Rahkonen

January 01, 2009 "Online Journal" -- Five years ago, the Bush administration lied about weapons of mass destruction to dupe us into supporting an illegal, immoral invasion of Iraq.

A few days ago, Israel trotted out only an infinitesimally more credible excuse -- the Hamas rockets case -- as justification for its own murderous shock and awe in Gaza, a long-planned campaign perniciously aimed at ousting a “regime” that came to power via popular, democratic vote.

Yes, such rockets exist, but they’re little more than slingshots against Israel’s incredible military might, and they’re used out of desperation by Palestinians who’ve never been accorded the democratic space within which to gain redress of their eminently just grievances.

Israeli apologists have presented absurd propaganda about those devices.

We’ve been asked, for instance, what would we do if rockets were being launched on our homes in New York or Texas, from Canada or Mexico?

The proper answer is that, if those two nations had been unlawfully occupied or embargoed by the United States for 60 years of relentless oppression and repression, and if all attempts at peaceful change had been forcefully prevented or scuttled by the U.S., then such attacks would be an understandable, indeed a justifiable attempt at gaining intolerably deferred liberty.

Our appropriate response wouldn’t be to bomb the hell out of the nearest Canadian or Mexican city, but to collectively look into mirrors and earnestly ask ourselves, “What have we done wrong to incur their wrath?”

And then act to correct the situation.

Conscientious Israelis acknowledge that the Hamas rockets rationale is fraudulent. For instance, Jerusalem Post writer Larry Derfner has noted, “We don’t want to see how people in Gaza are living, we block it out of our minds -- which, I suppose, is natural for a society at war, but which also keeps that war going longer than it might if we would recognize that Gaza is getting so much the worst of it.

“The [Palestinian] Kassam [rockets] have terrorized the 25,000 people in Sderot and its environs, but have caused very, very few deaths or serious wounds. By contrast, Israel has terrorized 1.5 million Gazans, locked them inside their awfully narrow borders, throttled their economy, and killed and seriously wounded thousands of them . . .

“This is crazy. Israel is the superpower of the Middle East, but because we still think we’re the Jews of Europe in the 1930s, or the Israelites under Pharaoh, we spend a lot more time fighting our enemies than we might if we looked at the whole picture, not just our half of it . . .”

As Gazan hospitals and morgues fill beyond capacity because of an ongoing air assault that cruelly began at precisely the hour when countless children were heading home from school, we’re expected to believe that small craters mostly in empty Israeli fields constitute this terrible episode’s chief sin.

Bugs bothered by sporadically impacting, glorified fireworks cobbled together in backyard garages are ludicrously supposed to be the primary problem, not human limbs and lives shattered by the most destructive weapons that military science can produce!

At any point during the past six decades, Israel could have had peace, simply by assenting to the great moral imperative of our time, namely the Palestinians’ right to their own, unitary, sovereign homeland.

Something which Israel continues to resist tooth and nail.

Two years ago, in Southern Lebanon, Israel engaged in similar bombings in civilian areas. Then, too, it maintained that only “terrorist” targets were being hit. As impartial observers finally ascertained the truth, clear evidence of enormous civilian carnage surfaced.

The Israeli leadership lied then, and it’s lying now.

There’s a veritable holocaust occurring in densely packed Gaza. Think Guernica, or the Warsaw Ghetto, with all the searing irony that comparison involves.

Apart from being an ethical travesty offending all decent hearts, it’s an unpardonable outrage to especially Arab/Islamic peoples around the world.

Witness the angry demonstrations in cities across the planet.

It takes no extraordinary analytical prowess to appreciate that, when the White House ridiculously blames what’s currently happening on “thugs” in Gaza, and when moderate Arab states adopt an accommodationist position pleasing the U.S. and Israel, a profound Arab/Islamic radicalization billows and swells.

New Osama bin Ladens are being born as innocents in Gaza are getting ripped to death by American-made Hellfire missiles, dispatched toward fleshly targets by Israeli pilots.

In fact, the almost certain, counterproductive outcome of Israel’s action makes us necessarily suspect that secret motives mistakenly judged by Tel Aviv to be worth the risk are actually at play.

Three possibilities spring immediately to mind:

1) Obscenely using de facto genocide to give the present Israeli government a “tough” image before upcoming national elections.

2) Roping Barack Obama into a harder pro-Israeli stance than Tel Aviv fears he’d otherwise take.

3) Creating a manipulated, intensely propagandized situation that would enable a desired Israeli attack on Iran.

Whatever the most deeply hidden reality, Israel’s gargantuan crime must be universally condemned in the strongest possible terms . . . and halted at once!
Dennis Rahkonen of Superior, Wisconsin, has been writing progressive commentary with a Heartland perspective for various outlets since the 60's


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21596.htm
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Snatiramas
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 09:29:23 AM »

Interesting use of the word truth

one mans truth is another mans lie and fundamentalism and the "I am right and you are wrong attitude" is what brings us to conflict...........needless to say I do not agree with the article but then I am entitled to my opinion
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2009, 10:12:31 AM »

Forgive me if I am wrong  as i am not great on military war and such topics

  isn't the situation akin to Ireland with the IRA? Now they were shooting and bombing at will but  the aggression shown to them wasn't from airplanes and bombs but by intelligence and ground forces,also ETA in Spain,

 the death toll speaks volumes i think last night it stood around 900+ Palestinian deaths and 14 Israeli deaths This just doesn't seem right to me.yes you have to remove the terrorist but surely the way it is being done isn't right!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 01:05:48 PM by cia260895 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2009, 01:00:34 PM »

The living conditions in Gaza are an aberration and a violation of human rights, but at the same time the psychotic element of Hamas is bringing the current Israeli bombardment upon itself and the innocent people of Gaza. The purpose of the embargo on Gaza has always been to prevent rockets and other arms getting through to Gaza, but Hamas continues to arm itself via hidden tunnels to Egypt. These tunnels have very deliberately been concealed in the homes of civilians - like I said, the militant branch of Hamas has a real collective psychotic streak, which admittedly has not been improved any by essentially keeping the people of Gaza hostage, but the truth is that the people who continue to fire rockets at Israeli towns even in the face of massive military force do not give a shit about their own people - their strategy of putting innocent women and children in the line of fire has been extensively documented and roundly condemned.

Hamas has always rocketed Israel from Gaza, but the rockets used to be largely symbolic, home-made affairs not really capable of doing much damage. The rockets they are firing now are professional, Iranian-made jobbies that are potentially capable of hitting Israeli nuclear facilities, and that has to be prevented.

In Israel, the feeling, even among liberals, is generally that going into Gaza now is regrettably necessary. It's not an attempt at genocide of the Palestinian people - if Israel really wanted to obliterate the Palestinian people, their military might is such that they could easily do so in about 5 minutes. They intend to do no such thing. I think Israel recognises that there will at some point be a Palestinian state, and it will most likely run along more or less the 1967 borders, but before that can happen the military capabilities of Hamas, as well as their attitude that Israel has no right to exist and that mindlessly bombing Israeli civilians is an ok thing to do, have to be suppressed. Once the tunnels to Egypt are destroyed and the security of Israel is assured, the attacks on Gaza will cease and talks can begin again. The attitude of Hamas has to change before anything that will improve the lot of the people of Gaza can happen. It is possible - Fatah and the PLO both used to have an ideological opposition to the state of Israel, but have since recognised the right of Israel to exist and it has become possible for something constructive to be done. If Hamas are permitted to continue firing rockets at Israel, then there cannot be end to the conflict.

Wow, that was a rant. My (Israeli) mum would be proud.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 10:57:29 PM by danafish » Logged
CelticGeezeer
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2009, 01:13:00 PM »

Israel is a rogue state which ignores United Nations resolutions, has illegal weapons of mass destruction, repeatedly breeches the Geneva conventions and routinely commits war crimes. Perhaps the coalition should invade and introduce some democracy.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 01:29:22 PM by CelticGeezeer » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 01:37:15 PM »

Always a problem when there isn't the good guys and the bad guys.

Makes it so much trickier when it's the bad guys and the other bad guys.
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 01:39:22 PM »

Israel essentially has absolute control over the US power of veto at the UN, on all middle eastern matters it is essentially their veto to use as they please. It means they have carte blanche to do whatever they like and the international community is powerless. If Obama's government is serious about changing America and regaining the world's respect on foreign policy this problem needs to be addressed.
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 01:43:43 PM »

Israel is a rogue state which ignores United Nations resolutions, repeatedly breeches the Geneva conventions and routinely commits war crimes. Perhaps the coalition should invade and introduce some democracy.

Israel is a unique case - a Jewish state surrounded by hostile Islamic states which largely have a massive ideological opposition to the very concept of its existence. I think in many cases Israel's paranoia is justified, although its heavy-handed, American-backed and American-style tactics have at times been extremely questionable. In its current state, Hamas is essentially a terrorist organisation which openly states that its ultimate aim is the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people, and I'm not sure how else one might go about dealing with that threat.

I do not believe that Israel wants or intends to kill Palestinian civilians, but Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, and civilian deaths, though always ugly and regrettable, are absolutely inevitable when Hamas deliberately conceal their military installations in regular people's houses. Sitting back and just taking the bombardments on southern Israeli towns from Gaza, while the rockets that they import get bigger and stronger, is just not an option for Israel because the logical conclusion of that strategy is that Hamas eventually get their hands on something capable of taking Israel out entirely. Israel is hoping that the people of Gaza will turn against the radical terrorist arm of Hamas that currently rules, and that the moderates in the party will gain more control and talks can resume. While you've got a bunch of crazy guys who like the idea of martyrdom in charge, there's not much that can be done in terms of diplomacy.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 01:43:51 PM »

If your enemy does the dirty by storing its weapons in areas populated by women and children, is it ok to carry out airstrikes on the stockpiles even if it means killing dozens of women and children in the process? If they captured your wife and kids and stuck them in there would it make the decision any easier?
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2009, 01:48:49 PM »

Apposite sig there WYSINWYG.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 02:08:25 PM »

If they captured your wife and kids and stuck them in there would it make the decision any easier?

That's what I'm saying, they deliberately use their own women and children as shields. Why do they still do this, when it has clearly not stopped Israel from attempting to take out their military capabilities at any point in the last 40 years or so of conflict? The only conclusion I can come to from this behaviour is that they care more about maintaining the influx of arms to Gaza than about the security of their own people. It's death or glory for the Palestinian militants, and they are not currently interested in any resolution to the conflict that allows the state of Israel to continue existing. They seem to me to be more interested in destroying the state of Israel than engaging in talks which would lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas know that they are massively outgunned, but the collective psychosis of the militant Hamas leadership drives them to do foolish things like continue to bomb Israeli towns, even when Israeli tanks are moving in. Yes, the Israeli army has killed many, many more Palestinian civilians than Hamas has killed Israelis and every civilian death is a horrible tragedy for someone, but at least Israel has the decency to call ahead when they intend to bomb Gaza - a courtesy that is not extended to the Israeli people when Hamas rocket their towns, as the intention of Hamas is not to take out Israel's military capabilities, but to cause as many pointless Jewish civilian deaths as their comparatively feeble arms will allow. It is very possible that by invading Gaza this time around Israel is storing up a whole load of trouble for the future, but I just can't see any end to the conflict that doesn't involve first taking out the military capabilities of Hamas and the Hamas leaders that promote the black-and-white, Israel-has-no-right-to-exist attitude among the Palestinian people.
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Jon MW
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 02:20:35 PM »

Good article written by a former Israeli army person

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine

EDIT: link works now
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 02:24:05 PM »

If they captured your wife and kids and stuck them in there would it make the decision any easier?

That's what I'm saying, they deliberately use their own women and children as shields. Why do they still do this, when it has clearly not stopped Israel from attempting to take out their military capabilities at any point in the last 40 years or so of conflict? The only conclusion I can come to from this behaviour is that they care more about maintaining the influx of arms to Gaza than about the security of their own people. It's death or glory for the Palestinian militants, and they are not currently interested in any resolution to the conflict that allows the state of Israel to continue existing. They seem to me to be more interested in destroying the state of Israel than engaging in talks which would lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Hamas know that they are massively outgunned, but the collective psychosis of the militant Hamas leadership drives them to do foolish things like continue to bomb Israeli towns, even when Israeli tanks are moving in. Yes, the Israeli army has killed many, many more Palestinian civilians than Hamas has killed Israelis and every civilian death is a horrible tragedy for someone, but at least Israel has the decency to call ahead when they intend to bomb Gaza - a courtesy that is not extended to the Israeli people when Hamas rocket their towns, as the intention of Hamas is not to take out Israel's military capabilities, but to cause as many pointless Jewish civilian deaths as their comparatively feeble arms will allow. It is very possible that by invading Gaza this time around Israel is storing up a whole load of trouble for the future, but I just can't see any end to the conflict that doesn't involve first taking out the military capabilities of Hamas and the Hamas leaders that promote the black-and-white, Israel-has-no-right-to-exist attitude among the Palestinian people.

I think I best keep quiet after reading this....
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 02:30:54 PM »

In its current state, Hamas is essentially a terrorist organisation which openly states that its ultimate aim is the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people

Is that correct?  I think we need to define 'Hamas' as it can mean different things to different people.  From wikipedia (so it must be true):

Quote
Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan, and the United States, and is banned in Jordan.
Australia and the United Kingdom list only the military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist organization.

As for the "eradication of Israel and the Jewish people" - I think that is incorrect.  They are opposed to the state of Israel, but I didn't think there was anything against Jews in their 'goals'.  I stand to be corrected of course.
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 02:51:26 PM »

In its current state, Hamas is essentially a terrorist organisation which openly states that its ultimate aim is the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people

Is that correct?  I think we need to define 'Hamas' as it can mean different things to different people.  From wikipedia (so it must be true):

Quote
Hamas is listed as a terrorist organization by Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan, and the United States, and is banned in Jordan.
Australia and the United Kingdom list only the military wing of Hamas, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, as a terrorist organization.

As for the "eradication of Israel and the Jewish people" - I think that is incorrect.  They are opposed to the state of Israel, but I didn't think there was anything against Jews in their 'goals'.  I stand to be corrected of course.

Hamas is the same group that think that the holocaust did not happen and glory in death rather than life. And what does "Jews in their goals" mean? Enough for me I am afraid. I shall not return to this thread.
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