exposed hole cards - ruling please

[Dingdell]

Ok - what is the definitive answer here - I think the casino made the wrong decision.

I was not in the hand.

2 players in the hand - self deal
Players 1 bets 1000 before the river thinking that  puts player 2 all in.  Player 2 calls and player 1 turns over his cards showing the nut flush. Player 1 is taking change from the pot (he had a big chip at the bottom of his stack that player 1 didnt see)

What should happen now?

[tikay]

Slightly confused here Diong. WHO had the big chip?

[Newmanseye]

If player 1 had him covered,player 2 should be out, if the chips are over the line or if the player said all in, and the other had him covered, then he is OUT, remember you are only on the hook for whats in front of you.

[Dingdell]

Slightly confused here Diong. WHO had the big chip?

Sorry  - player 2 was taking change but player 1 would have had him covered - he thought he was putting player 2 all in but misread the chips. Player 1 exposed his hole cards thinking he had put player 2 all in when he called.

[tikay]

That makes sense now.

[jezza777]

Player 2 has to put the 1000 in the pot . After player 1 has exposed his hand he can no longer bet but can call .
Or player player 1 exposed his hand and therefore it is ruled dead and player 2 is awarded the pot.
Depends on the rules of where you are playing.

[BlueWolf]

If player 2 made no verbal declaration when he/she put their chips in then it is just a call and they have to put the 1000 in and if there are any other betting rounds to follow then they are only able to check or call.

If player 2 made a declaration that they wanted to raise or were all in then player 1's hand is dead really even tho they believe 1000 would cover them all in if it doesnt then they lsoe the 1000 and the rest of the pot.

There can be variances but it depends totally on the circumstances and without being there or knowing the players involved these are standard rulings

[Dingdell]

If player 2 made no verbal declaration when he/she put their chips in then it is just a call and they have to put the 1000 in and if there are any other betting rounds to follow then they are only able to check or call.

If player 2 made a declaration that they wanted to raise or were all in then player 1's hand is dead really even tho they believe 1000 would cover them all in if it doesnt then they lsoe the 1000 and the rest of the pot.

There can be variances but it depends totally on the circumstances and without being there or knowing the players involved these are standard rulings

Player 2 just called.

Wherever i have played it has always been ruled that the player who exposed his cards could no longer bet but that the other player could if he wanted to but that the hand continued.

The casino decided that player 2 could decide what he wanted to happen as he had seen player 1's cards. he decided (as he was beat) that the exposed hand should be mucked leaving him to take the chips.

I was astounded that the casino couldn't make a ruling and left it to the other player to decide the guy's fate. I wasn't in the hand but it left a really bad feeling at the table which affected everyone and it nearly kicked off a few minutes later.

I nearly went home in tears as one of the other players took it upon himself to verbally abuse me and tell me what to do - even when to sit down at the final table. I blew by top (and eventually my stack) but pointed out (sorry shouted) that it wasn't his place to tell me what to do and that if the casino staff wanted me to start the table and i should sit down then it was up to them to come and get me. The staff just watched as we disintegrated into a snarling bunch of unhappy people - very badly managed by them.

I was ashamed by my behaviour - i have never spoken to anyone like that before - but it just goes to show how decisions can affect everyone!
As for the card room  I've decided not to play there anymore - I paid £110, which included their charges for providing the venue, dealers and supervision. If they can't provide the service so I wont play there any more.

OK - rant over.

Tracey 

The whole thing

[dik9]

Totally Gobsmacked at the house ruling!!!

In the first post you said it was self deal but later you said the registration charges were for dealers etc. By the £110 it seems you were playing a £100+£10 and it was self deal?

Where was it?

[BlueWolf]

thats just ludacrous, wanna say where it was? lmao

can't see it being anywhere that regularry runs poker or as it seems has no staff with an understanding of the rules.

Maybe best not to name and shame tho

[Dingdell]

Yep - it was self deal but still the £10 charge. I wont name and shame (although having talked to a few players at the gutshot tonight) i think I should and would love to but they are a casino who has been running poker games for a year or so, run games several times a week and have on this site boasted that they will soon be one of the best poker rooms in the UK, and are at the moment the best poker room in their town....hmmmm.

[BlueWolf]

that narrows it down a little i guess but only 1 venue springs to mind lol but i wont say anyway lol still would love to know for sure tho

[Yogi-Bear]

NAME AND SHAME. unless it's me. HEHEHEHEHE.

We all want praise but sometimes out shortcomings also need pointing out to us.

Yogi

[BlueWolf]

dont worry it aint you lol and to say its gonna be the best club in the country methinks someone had been at the sherry 4 weeks early lol

[mikkyT]

The ruling is that THE CARDS SPEAK. The rest of the table can call, bet or fold, but the exposed hand still stands and the exposer can only check or call any remaining bets before the showdown. Im astounded by that ruling...