This is just wrong.

[thetank]

I'm not going to get into an argument about this, but taking a couple of stories on their own is misleading.

I'm sure if a Saudi Arabian muslim picked up a British newspaper he could find a story appaulling (at the very least he would deeply offended by Page 3 of the Sun).

It's a different culture and different rules apply.

Do you want more stories?  You think that these stories are comparable to upsetting someone's sensibilities at seeing some human flesh in a newspaper?

Different cultures are fine, and something that should be applauded and enjoyed.  But the removal of human rights for women isn't a 'cultural' issue.

What constitutes a human right is a cultural issue though.

Saudi Arabia has criticized the United Nation's definitions of human rights for it not taking into account the culture of Islamic countries.
It is impossible to fully comply with the both the UN's Universal Document of Human Rights and the Shariah (Islamic Law)


The UDHR is percieved by many Islamic societies as being...

"a secular understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition"

The Organisation of the Islamic Conference came up with their own document on human rights which could be adhered to without infringing on the Shariah.

I'm sure if a Saudi Arabian muslim picked up a British newspaper he could find a story appaulling (at the very least he would deeply offended by Page 3 of the Sun).

"Nikki from Gravesend (21) wishes her Muslim fans well and hopes they don't Mecca big fuss about Page 3"

lolololololololololololololol

[cia260895]

I'm not going to get into an argument about this, but taking a couple of stories on their own is misleading.

I'm sure if a Saudi Arabian muslim picked up a British newspaper he could find a story appaulling (at the very least he would deeply offended by Page 3 of the Sun).

It's a different culture and different rules apply.

Do you want more stories?  You think that these stories are comparable to upsetting someone's sensibilities at seeing some human flesh in a newspaper?

Different cultures are fine, and something that should be applauded and enjoyed.  But the removal of human rights for women isn't a 'cultural' issue.

How about the exploitation of women in pornography?

Eastern European women being forced to work in brothels?

from what i've seen its then men that get exploited...I mean sometimes its as much as 1 fella to 3 women...

[Graham C]

I'm sure if a Saudi Arabian muslim picked up a British newspaper he could find a story appaulling (at the very least he would deeply offended by Page 3 of the Sun).

"Nikki from Gravesend (21) wishes her Muslim fans well and hopes they don't Mecca big fuss about Page 3"

 

[thetank]

There are exploitation, injustice and violations of 'human rights' occur in every society. These should for the most part be dealt with by the members of that society. Very occasionally pressures from outside that society are appropriate and useful, more usually such pressures are counterproductive.

Taking an example in isolation and drawing attention to it merely reinforces peoples prejudices, and is not useful.

this

[kinboshi]

My apologies for highlighting the fact that a woman has been punished for being gang-raped, and that child abuse is condoned in Saudi Arabia.

These stories are obviously fabricated or are one-offs, and woman have a fair rights and aren't subject to human rights' abuse in Saudi. 

[thetank]

My apologies for highlighting the fact that a woman has been punished for being gang-raped, and that child abuse is condoned in Saudi Arabia.

Apology accepted

By way of penance, I charge you with the task of reading wardonkey's post again.

These stories are obviously fabricated or are one-offs, and woman have a fair rights and aren't subject to human rights' abuse in Saudi. 

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

[The Camel]

There are exploitation, injustice and violations of 'human rights' occur in every society. These should for the most part be dealt with by the members of that society. Very occasionally pressures from outside that society are appropriate and useful, more usually such pressures are counterproductive.

Taking an example in isolation and drawing attention to it merely reinforces peoples prejudices, and is not useful.

This.

[kinboshi]

My apologies for highlighting the fact that a woman has been punished for being gang-raped, and that child abuse is condoned in Saudi Arabia.

Apology accepted

By way of penance, I charge you with the task of reading wardonkey's post again.

I wasn't responding to Wardonkey's post.

These stories are obviously fabricated or are one-offs, and woman have a fair rights and aren't subject to human rights' abuse in Saudi. 

I don't think anyone has suggested that.

I was suggesting that their rights are being violated, and it's wrong.  To illustrate the point, I selected two examples.  I didn't realise I needed more - is there a special number of examples that I need to present in order to have a valid point?

Of course, I haven't been there and neither am I a woman - so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion on it...

[The Camel]

There is something about the way the second article is written which makes me think it has been a mistake in translation.

It is written so stutteringly and is barely comprehensble.

To use this as a basis of an opinion is deeply flawed imo.

[thetank]

I didn't realise I needed more - is there a special number of examples that I need to present in order to have a valid point?

You don't need to post more examples, we're actually saying you should perhaps post less examples.

Ideally, no examples.

[AndrewT]

There is something about the way the second article is written which makes me think it has been a mistake in translation.

It is written so stutteringly and is barely comprehensble.

To use this as a basis of an opinion is deeply flawed imo.

I read it and now I can't get Lionel Richie out of my head.

[thetank]

Of course, I haven't been there and neither am I a woman - so maybe I shouldn't have an opinion on it...

Of course you can have an opinion.

Just as someone else can have an opinion that your opinion is not very helpful and pretty irrelevant.

[Colchester Kev]

There is something about the way the second article is written which makes me think it has been a mistake in translation.

It is written so stutteringly and is barely comprehensble.

To use this as a basis of an opinion is deeply flawed imo.

I read it and now I can't get Lionel Richie out of my head.

LMFAO ... please go directly to hell, do not pass Heaven, do not stay in limbo.

I am afraid I shall be laughing at your post all day !!

[kinboshi]

There is something about the way the second article is written which makes me think it has been a mistake in translation.

It is written so stutteringly and is barely comprehensble.

To use this as a basis of an opinion is deeply flawed imo.

It was probably translated by Ironside.

It's not the basis of my opinion.  It merely is an example of what is happening in Saudi, and how the law treats women there.

The second article comes from the Saudi Gazette:

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.spages&spageid=6

It's not an article condemning the Saudi policy on women's human rights - in fact it's apologetic towards the men involved and damning on the woman's part in the incident (imo).  The article itself is an interesting reflection of the views of the system there, apart from the actual incident itself.

[kinboshi]

There are exploitation, injustice and violations of 'human rights' occur in every society. These should for the most part be dealt with by the members of that society. Very occasionally pressures from outside that society are appropriate and useful, more usually such pressures are counterproductive.

Taking an example in isolation and drawing attention to it merely reinforces peoples prejudices, and is not useful.

I disagree that the violation of someone's human rights shouldn't be a matter for discussion or action from someone outside that country.  Especially when the person whose rights are being violated have little or no voice themselves.