rule regarding checkin the nuts

[nottsboy]

ive played in a few card rooms and a few days ago i was playing in walsall. i was in a hand, i mad  nut straight and river brought a flush. i was in the pot against what looked to be two friends, or definately people who knew each other. the river went check check, check, which led me to beleive my nut striaght was good.. then the 2nd player turned his cards over and declared, king flush, then the last guy said no good mate, nut flush.
to my knowledge, which isnt a lot, checking behind on the river is soft play, or that is at least the ruling at dtd. i heard of people being punished for doing this, and also people who were in my situation walking out of the ournament.. why is there not a specific rule for everyone.

[Cf]

There is a rule against this, it is softplay.

If I was a TD I wouldn't even give a warning for this, it would be a straight out disqualification from the tournament, it's pretty much the most blatent example of cheating you can get.

Did you not tell the dealer to stop and call the TD?

(I'm assuming here the board isn't paired)

[MC]

If the guy with the nut flush was last to act and the board wasn't paired this is verrrrrrry dodgy, and definitely action should have been taken...

[Robert HM]

Assuming unpaired board, nuts v 2nd nuts, adequate players, no doubt that it is softplay and cheating.

[Hairydude]

BUT if you were last to act(or even 2nd nuts tbh) then there can be nothing done

[tikay]

Was it a Team Tournament?

I read the other day on another Forum that soft play/collusion is deemed to perfectly acceptable in Team Events.

It's not - obv - but many think it's OK.

[Ironside]

why would 2 players who were playing as a team softplay when another person was in the pot

but checking with the nuts and last to act should be an auto disqualfication unless the person had missed they had the nuts

checking with the nuts with people still to act is on the other hand a legit move

[EvilPie]

What if you've got the nuts and are last to act but want to get a read on your opponent?

If you think your oppo is bluffing because you have some kind of tell on him you may want to confirm that tell. You know that they will pass to any raise or bet but by checking you get the tell confirmed as they have to show their hand first.

Not saying I'd ever do it but if you've got what you think is a good read would a TD maybe accept it?

[nottsboy]

thanks for the info...
i was first to act the guy with ace flush (stone cold nuts) was last to act.... this was at walsall ina standard competeion... i played in the 200 side event this week and the first question i asked the dealer was is it allowed to check behind with nuts or is it construded as have seen on the circuit beforesoft play... after i asked this.. 3 players at the table 2 of which i have seen in big comps before... said 'of course you can you can do what ever you want' no one can make you bet...
however when i came back to dtd and spoke to couple of teh dealers and the TD they all said it is softplay and shouldnt happen....
why have some people never heard of such a ruling and yet some people feel very strongly about it

[Djinn]

I have had this happen a couple of times live, and however you look at it it's cheating.  The idea that you might 'want to check a tell' is pretty flimsy.  It's counterintuitive to check the nuts on the river at your last possible opportunity to extract value, which is the whole point of the game - the only possible excuse is softplay which is against the rules.  I don't care about a lot of the stuff that goes on which gets the floorpeople called (speech play, out of turn action etc.) but I would always immediately get a ruling if I saw someone do this.  The ruling will never be in favour of the checker, although they probably wouldn't just pick up the guy's chips and show him the door. 

[ScottMGee]

Definite soft play / collusion and the player should have been penalised!

What if you've got the nuts and are last to act but want to get a read on your opponent?

If you think your oppo is bluffing because you have some kind of tell on him you may want to confirm that tell. You know that they will pass to any raise or bet but by checking you get the tell confirmed as they have to show their hand first.

Not saying I'd ever do it but if you've got what you think is a good read would a TD maybe accept it?

This actually happened in the Premier Poker League. Roland De Wolfe vs Juha Helpi (with the nuts), Juha last to to act asked if he could just check/call with the nuts as he knew Roland was bluffing and wanted to see his hand. TD and all players confirmed he had to bet the nuts on the river as he was last to act!

[MANTIS01]

Juha last to to act asked if he could just check/call with the nuts as he knew Roland was bluffing and wanted to see his hand. TD and all players confirmed he had to bet the nuts on the river as he was last to act!

This would be a stunning re-bluff imo.

Soft-play has never really got my goat all that much. If you are missing value with your big hands cos you want to hold hands with your friend under the table then more fool you imo. 

[ScottMGee]

Soft-play has never really got my goat all that much. If you are missing value with your big hands cos you want to hold hands with your friend under the table then more fool you imo. 

I imagine you might have a different view is you were short stacked (say less than one BB) UTG on the bubble and two friends both checked down the nuts and 2nd nuts rather than knock one of them out.

[johnlarsson]

i have seen this happen millions of times.. millions.. usually a combination of a lot of things

1.  somtimes a drunk guy who really doesnt know what hes doing and doesnt realise

2.  its obv there pals and are slow playing each other

3.. and i have done this one a lot also.. there is no money in the pot its pretty obv the guy has nufin by the way hes holding his cards ready to fold. u aitn getting called. save time and deal the next hand instead of messing about thinking of a bet et etc.. here u go i have this give me the chips deal quickly dealer save time

[MANTIS01]

Soft-play has never really got my goat all that much. If you are missing value with your big hands cos you want to hold hands with your friend under the table then more fool you imo. 

I imagine you might have a different view is you were short stacked (say less than one BB) UTG on the bubble and two friends both checked down the nuts and 2nd nuts rather than knock one of them out.

If it was a Sunday as well I might.