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turny
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« on: March 02, 2009, 01:31:10 AM » |
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7 handed table blinds 800/1600
mid position with big stack (75k) makes it 5k to play, all folds to bb who calls the 3400 xtra leaving 8k behind
the flops dealt and before the smaller stack whose first to act says or does anything the big stack player says " lets save time, if you bet im all in and if you check im all in"
whats your take on this? is the big stack angle shooting? is this type of speech play allowed? what ruling would you make if called to the table by the shortstack?
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Rookie (Rodney)
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 01:32:52 AM » |
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the BB is a donk
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HI HELEN!
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turny
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 01:37:23 AM » |
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the BB is a donk
agree totally but thats not the issue here [ x ] i wasn't the bb  |
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 01:43:04 AM by inthebelly »
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celtic
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 01:43:18 AM » |
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This goes on at luton all the time and no one says anything.
Is it angle shooting? Of course it is.
Given the recent problems at the GUKPT, it would probably be ruled that the big stack has declared all in out of turn. BB should disregard this info tho and play the hand accordingly without the need for a ruling imo.
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Keefy is back  But for how long? |
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turny
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 01:45:17 AM » |
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This goes on at luton all the time and no one says anything.
Is it angle shooting? Of course it is.
Given the recent problems at the GUKPT, it would probably be ruled that the big stack has declared all in out of turn. BB should disregard this info tho and play the hand accordingly without the need for a ruling imo.
so you class this as a binding "all in out of turn " from the big stack? do u issue a warning regards doing the same in future? |
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johnlarsson
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 01:54:55 AM » |
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ppl say this crap all the time.. ususaly they all no each other and its tougne and cheek somtimes they do it somtimes they dont.... however if it sounds like there serious and the guy wants the guy to go all in he can get the TD to force him to as a bet out of turn
really does depend on circumstances and who asks for a ruling
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my profile is number 1888 ha ha ha lmao
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celtic
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 01:59:13 AM » |
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This goes on at luton all the time and no one says anything.
Is it angle shooting? Of course it is.
Given the recent problems at the GUKPT, it would probably be ruled that the big stack has declared all in out of turn. BB should disregard this info tho and play the hand accordingly without the need for a ruling imo.
so you class this as a binding "all in out of turn " from the big stack? do u issue a warning regards doing the same in future? well he has said he is all in regardless of what the short stack does, so it goes as far as i can see. Do i issue a warning? I would advise against it as it not within the etiquette of the game etc. It will never be a penalty in the UK that's for sure. Well never has been that i have seen. |
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Keefy is back But for how long? |
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dik9
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 05:35:34 AM » |
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He has said the magic word "If" therefore it is conditional speech play and IMO doesn't stand, HOWEVER what was said here was two "Ifs" which cover both bases, so he is declaring to the other player that he is going to go all-in regardless of a bet or check. This makes it binding in my book, and a deliberate act out of turn, if it was my comp he would be forced to go all-in and would receive an instant 20 minute penalty, after the hand, as he knows he is acting of turn, in fact I may be even harsher.
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Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
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dik9
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 05:43:07 AM » |
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really does depend on circumstances and who asks for a ruling
Why does it depend on who asks for a ruling? Surely it is one rule for everyone, I know as a TD things aren't black and white all the time, but you can't advocate that your ruling would be different depending on the player who asked for the ruling, regardless of what the ruling is. |
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Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
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thetank
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 06:22:01 AM » |
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the big stack player says " lets save time
Fail! |
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For super fun to exist, well defined parameters must exist for the super fun to exist within.
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I KNOW IT
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 07:29:16 AM » |
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You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them." "Heart is what separates the good from the great. '
"All money is good, just the quantity makes it better"
My Dad
"Poker Players and Vultures are alike. They both live off the flesh of the weak"
Tony Bolto
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dik9
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 07:47:17 AM » |
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That's a slightly different scenario though Craig. That was the scenario given more like the gukpt incident. This bloke has basically told the other player that he is going to go all in if he bets OR checks. So acted deliberately out of turn.
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Cardroom Manager, Genting International Casino, Resorts World Birmingham
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MC
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 12:00:46 PM » |
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I'd assume this was binding. But based on chip stacks he probably followed through with his promise anyway?
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"Success is not final, failure is not fatal"@epitomised
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Cf
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 12:09:16 PM » |
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There is a fine line between speech play and breaking the rules.
In this case however I'd rule that he has acted out of turn, and would assign him a time penalty after the hand.
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Blue text
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rudders
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 02:27:02 PM » |
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Verbally binding - yes
acting out of turn- yes
angle shooting - probably- takes the BBs advantage of acting first away- however gives free info- ie my stop and go wont work here.
penalty - am fairly certain most casinos say persistant acting of turn will be punished by sin bin etc. my view where it is obviously deliberate like here- immediate punishment would be better.
I personally hate this deliberate acting of turn.
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Blonde Roshambo champion 2007
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