Two hands from a live mtt

[dino1980]

Couple of live hands that I played that I’d like opinion on. Both take place in £20 f/o game run by the London Poker meetup in a pub. 24 runners, 5000 starting stack, starting at 25/50. 20 min levels for first hour, 15 minutes thereafter. Standard is pretty lol, with around five good players, the same number of bad tag's and the rest clueless. This is only the second time i've played this game but the previous week on the final table bubble we were playing four handed the button made it 2400 at 400/800, i shoved with A-2 for 5100 total and he folded.

Anyway to the hands:

Hand 1) Blinds are 25/50, 8 handed we hold -Qc in the cut-off

We are about 10 hands in we’ve yet to get involved and have roughly our starting stack. The table has been very limp-cally, with limp,limp,limp,raise, call, call, call being a familiar pattern.

There are three limpers and one fold before it gets to us, we limp behind given the read on the table. The button then makes it 200 (lol), ). We’ve previously seen the button take this line tonight and he got to showdown with K-J after ‘value betting’ all three streets on a j-2-3-2-6 board and losing to j-3o which had obv limp called. He has won some chips back and is playing around 4k, we’ve played with him before and knows he overvalues marginal holdings. He also likely views us as aggressive due to us having <10bbs for a long time when we played previously, so I was open-shoving a lot and he folded Ace-x, twice to our <10bb shoves a fortinight  ago. Anyway back to the hand in question, the small blind calls, big blind folds, all three limpers call (pot 1100). We make it 1800 to go. Thoughts?


Hand two:

Blinds 50/100, 7 handed table, we hold 8-6dd in the cut-off. Utg+1 covers, Me: 6300 Small Blind: 6500

Utg+1 raises to 400, he’s a French student who whilst a massive station likely has a strong holding as the only other hand we’ve seen him raise pre-flop with is A-Q which flopped two pair and he played it strongly post flop. We’ve also seen him check call OOP on two streets with just queen high (on an A high board), in the process putting plenty of his stack at risk. In short I think we can stack him should we hit good, so we take a flier with 8-6dd  (should we just fold pre?) and the SB comes along as well. Small blind is one of the more experienced players at the table, he’s early 30s and is definitely a live player having talked a lot to a friend at the table about playing at The International and The Empire. However I’d place him in the bad live player group, he’s previously limp call OOP with Q-8s and done nothing else apart from limp a lot complaining that ‘ there’s no point in raising as everyone calls’.


Flop (pot 1300) -3d-Js

Two checks to me, I lead 900 (thoughts on this, in hindsight I think peeling is better due to the cally nature of the table), small blind makes it 2500 and the utg+1 orginal raiser just flats (wtf?).  (pot 7200). We have c.4600 left. If we think our nine flush outs are good should we ship it.?  Who folds with a 30bb stack and a soft table?

[GreekStein]

Hand 1) flat pre and take a flop vs the donks. Generally when you're 3-betting you shouldn't be making it this much.

Hand 2) fold pre. as played still fold here. your reasoning at the end makes no sense. You have 30x and what you think is a skill edge on your opponents and you want to risk it on a hand where you could be stone dead vs 2 opponents? muck fast

[daviebhoy]

we’ve played with him before and knows he overvalues marginal holdings...... We make it 1800 to go. Thoughts?

I am guessing he either called or re-popped you with something like AT - a marginal hand you knew he over valued. The limp/re-raise from the cut-off isn't the most convincing of stories to be telling and he would have to be pretty bad to buy it.

he’s a French student who whilst a massive station likely has a strong holding.....................
Who folds with a 30bb stack and a soft table?

If he is a station then why bet the flop when you know he is almost certainly going to call ? You have to fold because the table action says there is a good chance you are drawing dead. You have little fold equity in this spot because at least one of them - if not both - are likely to call your push and you are certainly behind. If SB is likely to check-raise bluff here then I think a push can be merited but if he has flopped a set you are in a lot of trouble.

If you were going to make a move on the french guy I think a 3-bet pre and then a large bet/jam on that flop would be better. Flat calling his raise with 86d and allowing the SB to join the party creates problems for you on the flop. Then there is the question of whether you need to make a move at all here.....

[MC]

Hand 1:
Just flat this raise surely? If you have AK your line is okay but KQ just too weak. Plus people rarely limp behind 3 players with a big hand so your raise looks suspicious.

Hand 2:
Agree, fold pre. Check behind on the flop please, especially as you think they're stations. As played, just pass. 46 big blinds left surely not 30? Plenty of better spots as you have no pair outs and there is a chance of a higher flush draw...

[dino1980]

Time to come clean:

Hand 1: I did indeed just flat call. It just occured to me after the hand played out, that on reflection this could've been a viable alternative line at this tabke, although everyone i've suggested it to thinks this is madness, so fair enough. I was in a 'look for any spot to flip mood' and my thought process was that the original raiser overvalues marginal hands, but does laydown hands in the face of aggression. And like most low limit inexperienced recreational live players he values tournament life too highly. So my thinking was that I could pull a go and go. As the most likely scenario is that i get just the one caller in the shape of the original raiser. And i've got relative postion on him come the flop and will just open ship my 3200 into a 4kish pot which will take it down a high% of the time unless the flop has smacked our villain in the cock.

The hand did go to showdown, on the -2d-2h flop the small blind bet 200 into a 1400 pot! One caller to me i passed. Original raiser just called (pot 2000ish), turn, , small blind again leads for 200! Only caller is the orginal raiser. River . Checks round, small blind shows -8h, original raiser shows K-10dd.

Hand 2: After some time in the think tank i did fold. It went to showdonw, original raiser had KK, small blind mucked but gave it some speechplay on the turn that 'he had outs' so he likely had -x or Jx-A/Qd

[dino1980]

Hand 1:
Just flat this raise surely? If you have AK your line is okay but KQ just too weak. Plus people rarely limp behind 3 players with a big hand so your raise looks suspicious.

Hand 2:
Agree, fold pre. Check behind on the flop please, especially as you think they're stations. As played, just pass. 46 big blinds left surely not 30? Plenty of better spots as you have no pair outs and there is a chance of a higher flush draw...

Yep for some reason i must've thought we were at 75-150, but as the post says it was 50-100. IIRC was going to 75-150 in about 8mins as i did indeed look at the tournament clock whilst weighing up the decision.