Was this a bad pass?

[keilan303]

Few hands into level 4 in a live tourney, just back from break. I am chipleader and only one other player survived first half with chips. The rest have all taken add ons and are playing push/fold poker for the first few hands. Eventually one or two are gone and I am sitting with around 12,000 , blinds 200/400. Average stack is around 5000.

Big Blind has around 4000. I find  in middle position and raise to 1400 (I want BB in the pot, he is aggressive ATC and I have hit some nice draws against him while extracting maximum value in first couple of levels so I know he's steaming). Player OTB reraises to 3000 and BB pushes all in. I call the all in and Button calls (leaving 3000 behind) Buttons range is ATC, TJo being his most played hand...

Flop comes     

I check, thinking its going to be checked to showdown. Button pushes all in for his remaining 3000. Pot is now 15,000 and I have to call 3000 to win it, but as i haven't hit the flop I reckon player on the button either has 2 clubs or is ace high, paired ten etc. neither of which I am beating at this stage, if I call and lose I will be down to below average stack providing BB is knocked out, and blinds are about to jump to 300/600. Is there any justification for passing in this spot??

[EvilPie]

To get the best info here from posters you need to delete the result from your post.

It's too easy now that we know the result.

Delete everything after the bit where the Button shoves following your check and see what people really think.

[Longy]

Less pre, i would make it a 1000 here. It allows you more room post flop if you get flatted and doesn't commit you to the pot if you get 3bet by anyone above avg stack.

As played once it get raised and then raised again i would pass. If you are going to continue with this hand, just get your chips in pre. As you found out you end up with ridiculous pot to stack ratios where you are getting massive odds on any flop. Fwiw i would open shove this flop as you are committed and may fold out some ace highs etc but i would never be in this spot.

[Geff.H]

I hate your hand v 2 players in this position, you are behind to both ranges and i'd think dominated.
Personally i fold pre.
Fold, he is at best continuating with a better preflop hand.
We all raise pre with rubbish with the aim to either be the bully or just nick blinds, resistance tho means something, either they don't believe you or they think they are ahead.
So easy for you to not play this hand at all.

[JChapman]

I'm prety sure this is a call on the flop. You have already stated that you think your opponents have extremely wide ranges so there is a reasonable chance that catching one of the two overcards may be good enough to win the whole pot.  Combine this with some backdoor flush and straight possibilities then surley you have to call with 5-1 odds and the betting closed for the hand?  You have a fair bit of equity against the ranges described and the fact that the average stack is 12.5bbs (means the structure is very quick) increases the chances of your overcards being good as people will show up with silly wide ranges sometimes.  Winning this hand puts you in such a ridiculous tournament position, you can sit back and let everyone else push fold and pick your spots.
    If you assign wide ranges to both players (way narrower than ATC though as I feel this may be an overstatement for the button) ie BB ATC, Button 38.5% hands (Any Suited, Pair or Broadway combination) then on that board you have 26% equity, so passing here with 5-1 odds based on your reads is a mistake in my opion.


Of course you should just really pass pre-flop but if you feel you must

[JChapman]

erm didnt mean to post that just yet, oh well..

If you assign a much tighter re-raising range to the button (22+,ATs+,KQs,QJs,AJo+,KQo)(this is generous but the players in those casino events are very liberal with thier standards in general)) then your equity drops to 18% making it a boarderline descion, as it is a live comp that choice is assisted up by your impression of the players at that moment in time based on all of the previous action you have been observing, a good read can incresase your equity as you have eliminated some of the possible holdings that would be beating you on the flop.

With the fast structure, equities outlined (through PokerStove) then this for me is a call and pray.

Thoughts?