TDA rules

[Karabiner]

I have just had a read through these Tournament Director's Association rules.

I had not heard about them until Craig from Sheffield mentioned that they are now in force there.

Well they are IMO excellent, and cover virtually everything.

What is stopping everyone using this model ?

Nottingham Gala would improve immensely by adopting the TDA rules,
especially when the BB moves to the worst seat available.

Although there could be a problem interpreting "a hand is in play after the first riffle"
as some of the dealers do not know how to riffle !

I see these TDA rules as a real opportunity to formally unify all rulings in all cardrooms.

[tikay]

I agree Ralph, they are excellent.

They are bring freely adopted in mainland Europe, less so in the UK. I think Blackpool use some, but not all, of them. Most Thomas Kremser run Festivals use them.

"What is stopping everyone using these"? you ask. Nothing. Except, that is, the fact that Poker has not organised itself, & has no real Association, Governing Body, or Structure, & seems determined to remain fragmented.

It would be a boon to the Casinos, because it would remove from them the onerous responsibility of making their own rulings & being kicked in the goolies when folks don't like the rulings. The Casinos get it in the necks because we don't like the Prize Structures, but who's fault is that? Ours! It's our money so we ought to have set up a body that told the Casinos how WE want OUR money to be paid to US. But in the absence of such a body, we ought to be thankful that the Casinos retain an interest. But unless we get our house in order, the Casinos will eventuallty tire of the anarchy of poker, & they will give over the space they currently dedicate to poker to slots or other more reliable & predictable income flows.

I have had a look at something called the "International Poker Association". After much thought, I cannot convince myself that this organisation is the right vehicle to take us forward. Consider their take on "Membership Levels" - "....... The IPA understands how imperative it is that they offer different membership levels to acknowledge the various accomplishments of professionals, recreational players, as well as students of the game of poker.....". Then take a look at their Steering Committee. Charlie Shoten. David Chiu. Harley Hall. Jesse Jones. John Cernuto. Kenna James. Mark Gregorich. Maureen Brooks. Pete Costa. Roxenne Rhodes. Stan Goldstein.

Note the thin European presence. Note the lack of "regular guys". Whose interests do you imagine THAT bunch of guys & gals will be looking after?

This may be the way to go, but I cant agree that "differing Membership levels" will ever be right. The little guy - & there are LOTS more of us "little guys" in poker than big names - we need looking after too. We are entitled to at LEAST an equal voice. And, though it may come as a shock to America, poker exists in the rest of the world, too.

Food for thought, though.....

[tikay]

And here's a link to some IPA material. The more I read it, the less I like it, for the reasons I gave above. But the fundamental aims & goals are about right.

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/pokerblog/archives/000396.php

[ifm]

How about doing something about it yourself Tikay?
What about the blondepoker governing body?
What an undertaking it would be though!!
How would it be funded? golf takes a prize money percentage but they do decide who plays in the first place!
As you said earlier about casinos and space, if you start telling them what to do will they allow it?
Do you mean just rules or do you include running festivals, big events etc?
I think some sort of organisation is necessary but where do you start, how far do you go, how far can you go?
I'd like to know just what people actually would want from a governing body.
Ian

[Karabiner]

There was a European players association a few years back.

Tom Gibson was involved and I will ask him to post something here
.
I'm sure he will give some useful insights into the pitfalls and relative benefits,
although I believe their association was more to do with European rankings etc.

[tikay]

Wow, talk about a loaded question..... I will answer it later, but be warned, it may be heavy reading!

But I WILL answer your first question now - "how about doing something about it yourself Tikay?"

I already am Ian - I am agitating for it, nudging folks to think about it, trying to warn them of the organisational void that Poker has found itself in. Eventually, the penny will drop. But I think your question was really why does Tikay not actually DO something about it, rather than just talk about it. That's an easy one. I simply dont have the "presence", the experience, the depth of knowlege of the poker world that is necessary. It needs someone with authority, someone who we all trust, & someone who has a blend of business knowledge, orgnisational skill & people skills, all this on top of respect from the Poker Community. That makes for a pretty short short list!

More later. Once I get on my hobby horse, there's no stopping me, eh?

[tikay]

Karabiner/Ralph - please do.

Rankings are the last thng that concern me though, we are reasonably well served in that respect already. I do have one or two minor - & they are minor - reservations on the current ranking system, but let's not muddy the water, that is a collateral issue. I would very much like the Rankings to be more widely publicised, but that aint as easy as you might think! The current Ranking system works OK, so let's worry about more pressing things.

But I'd be interested in Mr Gibson's views on the wider problems.

[Karabiner]

And here's a link to some IPA material. The more I read it, the less I like it, for the reasons I gave above.  But the fundamental aims & goals are about right.

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/pokerblog/archives/000396.php

The jury's out as far as I am concerned on that one Tikay.

But they obviously have some valid points,
although it's direction seems to be more towards marketing and merchandising rather than player's welfare.

[RED-DOG]

What a fascinating discussion, I wish I was clever enough to offer an opinion

mind you Ive never let that stop me before

[tikay]

Agreed Ralph.

And it's the welfare of poker as a WHOLE that concerns me. Players, promotors, venues, casinos, TD's, the whole lot. The last thing we need is a players union banging the table.

[Colchester Kev]

so correct me if i am wrong, but are you saying what the game needs is a sort of co-operative governing body incorperating people from the groups that you mention ?

 And do you see it being a purely european organisation or a global one ?

[tikay]

You are not a milion miles away from how I see it Kev, though I don't like the word "co-operative".

Think of Rugby Union & the RFU. British Tennis & the LTA, Then ask yourself how magnificent Twickenham Stadium or All-England Lawn Tennis Club at Wimbledon are, then ask how they found the funds.

Global or European? British will do for starters. Eventually, each country or continent will form their own affiliate, & in due course, they will merge. But that's getting a bit ahead of ourselves!

[Colchester Kev]

Although i agree in principal to what you see as the way forward, i cant help but feel that the ego's of some of the "Names" in the poker world would mean that getting everyones backing would be hard to achieve, and as sponsorship becomes more and more prevalent in the game, surely their interests and indeed televisions companies interests will be big hurdles to negotiate.

And providing there is enough interest (and i cant believe that there wouldnt be ) who would decide which individuals are best suited to stand on behalf of the players ?   would all players be polled , from 05/10c internet players to full time pro's ?  logistical nightmare i think, but where theres a will ..etc.

[Bongo]

Would be very easy to organise a poll over the Internet. Of course that introduces teh difficulty of catering for those who don't have Internet access.

[tikay]

I disagree Kev. The aim would NOT be to fight ANYBODY, the Governing Body would be there to work WITH & FOR EVERYONE, for Poker as a whole.

Big names not happy? They'd not have a choice. Their SPONSORS would be happy, 'cos they'd have a say. The TV guys ditto. The Venues ditto.

Anyway, I will answer all this later.