TDA rules

[Karabiner]

I think that maybe the cart is getting ahead of the horse here.

The first step is to get all cardrooms to abide by the same rules.

The TDA rules are the best and most complete that I have seen.

Once everyone is singing from the same hymnsheet, I believe that progress will be a lot easier.

P.S. Big up to Nottm. Gala for adopting TDA's table balancing policy.

[Ironside]

what is needed to start this off is every card room in the country to have a meeting at the meeting would be 2-3 players and either the card room manager or a proxy for him/her. also at the meeting could be 1 rep from from each of the online sites (if they wish) we would then have a braod range of views to hammer out how we want the game in this country to go forward.

problem 1 is getting everyone to agree to meet
problem 2 is finding a location to meet, people in around london dont like to go leave london for anything why should they when everything is on there doorstep, people in the north hate traveling to london as its so expensive and would be cheaper for everyone to have it somewhere in the north or midlands.

soultions would to be to have an indepentaly moderated SECURE internet chat, this would entail a toally indepenant chairperson that would insure order was maintain it would have to be secure so only thos invited could gain access to speak (although a case maybe made for railbirds who have no chat priviledges, this could all be set up and done very easy if there was enough will shown by the cardrooms and the players.

[Ironside]

I think that maybe the cart is getting ahead of the horse here.

The first step is to get all cardrooms to abide by the same rules.

The TDA rules are the best and most complete that I have seen.

Once everyone is singing from the same hymnsheet, I believe that progress will be a lot easier.

P.S. Big up to Nottm. Gala for adopting TDA's table balancing policy.

wrong once there is an assocition in place it will be easier to get everyone playing by the same rules

[Ironside]

what i mean by the last post is that a ruling body dictates the rules of the game

at the moment each casino/chain is its own ruling body so they make the rules

one body one set of rules

[Ironside]

what is needed to start this off is every card room in the country to have a meeting at the meeting would be 2-3 players and either the card room manager or a proxy for him/her. also at the meeting could be 1 rep from from each of the online sites (if they wish) we would then have a braod range of views to hammer out how we want the game in this country to go forward.

problem 1 is getting everyone to agree to meet
problem 2 is finding a location to meet, people in around london dont like to go leave london for anything why should they when everything is on there doorstep, people in the north hate traveling to london as its so expensive and would be cheaper for everyone to have it somewhere in the north or midlands.

soultions would to be to have an indepentaly moderated SECURE internet chat, this would entail a toally indepenant chairperson that would insure order was maintain it would have to be secure so only thos invited could gain access to speak (although a case maybe made for railbirds who have no chat priviledges, this could all be set up and done very easy if there was enough will shown by the cardrooms and the players.

that would be a steering group to a governing body not the governeing body itself

[tikay]

Wow, this is GREAT stuff, keep it coming boys.

And it pleases me muchly to say it - Ironside, when the going gets serious, talks a great deal of sense.

Lets hope we get more solid contributions from blondeites. Tell you what, the lil ol blonde Forum is coming along nicely, eh?

[Karabiner]

Personally I feel that the way forward is to gently persuade cardroom supervisors
who are not already using these TDA rules to adopt them.
Let's face it many of them may not have heard of them.

Generally speaking it would only involve some fine tuning, as most of the rules are in place.

The more cardrooms who adopt the rules, the easier it will be to bring the rest into line.

My feeling is that gentle player-generated persuasion would be more effective than some ruling body
which the casinos may choose not to recognise, trying to tell them what to do.

[Ironside]

Personally I feel that the way forward is to gently persuade cardroom supervisors
who are not already using these TDA rules to adopt them.
Let's face it many of them may not have heard of them.

Generally speaking it would only involve some fine tuning, as most of the rules are in place.

The more cardrooms who adopt the rules, the easier it will be to bring the rest into line.

My feeling is that gentle player-generated persuasion would be more effective than some ruling body
which the casinos may choose not to recognise, trying to tell them what to do.

basically ATM its would be good to try and get the casinos on board with 1 set of rules TDA

but if we get a governing body sorted it would be easy to MAKE them follow the rules

by a simple letter to the gaming commision (infact they should also be invited to the steering group)

[WoollyT]

The European Poker Players Association ( EPPA) was the brainchild of Mickey Finn. Its aim was to promote poker, mainly tournaments, by establishing Ranking Tournaments, proper Blind/Ante structures, reduced hotel rates and a Ranking Points System which culminated in an annual freeroll event for the leading ranked players.
It was a brave project which achieved many of its objectives. The strength of poker in Europe today can in many respects be traced directly back to initiatives which the EPPA kick-started. Virtually all newcomers to poker today have no idea how uncoordinated and indeed haphazard the scene was in those pre- computer days.
All the founders of the EPPA were enthusiastic players who had to plough completely untilled soil to get their ideas established. Having no idea how successful the EPPA would be they offered a lifetime membership for thirty pounds, thinking  that this would be sufficient to cover their administration costs. Of course it was ridiculously insufficient so when, after a few years of enormous growth in the tournament scene, the EPPA Committee had to introduce an annual membership fee of 30 pounds (  a laughably low amount when you consider the money on offer) they got lots of flak from guys who expected a lifetime supply of circulars, initiatives etc for their initial fee.
One of the big problems any organisation faces is the fact that the poker scene is now composed of so many diverse nationalities , to say nothing about the online scene. Trying to get any sort of agreement from players in Bergen, Belgrade, Moscow and Manchester, for example, is a daunting proposition. Perhaps though the fact that everyone now has access to e-communication may help overcome that problem.
I think that if any new Association is to get off the ground it will need to have a healthy membership in every country where it aims to have influence. It will probably also need a small fulltime staff to handle all the issues which will inevitably arise and for this to happen it will need to be properly funded.
I hope this is helpful to your debate.

[tikay]

A lovely post Tom, thank you for the time you have given to help us air this very important subject.

I don't intend to debate it now, except to say, I particularly like your closing paragraph, identifying as it does the need for each country to get the ball rolling independently before it goes pan-European. For me, the initial target has to be the UK.

One little step at a time is all it needs.

Plenty of folk will tell us why we can NOT do it. I am more interested in hearing & exploring how we CAN do it.

[Ironside]

i would suggest that there need to be 2 groups

a governing body to look after the game

and a players association (like the one now defunt) to look after the players intrests

neither could do each others job but both could work well together

[ifm]

There's also the British gaming board to consider, they seem to be constantly changing/introducing rules that have a bearing on casino based poker.
The only real issue to think about right now is funding, would folks pay for this?
As a shop steward i was constantly getting grief from union members that NON members enjoyed the exact same raises/benefits etc as those paying subs, would you pay when others won't?
You can't really involve TV companies/poker sites/casino groups too much because they would inevitably gain influence.
Good stuff!
Ian

[tikay]

The Funding would not be a problem, but I'll explain that another day.

But the Groups you suggest should not be included - I disagree in respect of the Casino Groups. We need them. They MUST be included if it is to work.

[ifm]

I was thinking the only real way would be to add a small rake to certain tourny's/festivals.
The BGB seem a bit indescriminate with their power and don't forget casinos HAVE to abide.
Ian

[Yogi-Bear]

Well well. The wheels are turning. Before we embrace the all wonderful TDA rules. Yes at first glance they seem good. However.

1. Y would companies use them when they haven't been involved in the process of formulating them?

2. If casino groups did use them would they then be invited by the TDA to meetings where rules are discussed?

3. They are concise but leave many many situations uncovered. Leaving any decision with whomever is in charge. And I know how u all hate inconsistency.

Grosvenor have changed their rules and incorporated a few of the TDA rules, but some rules can't be changed because they are actually there to comply with certain Gaming Board Regulations. Of course the rule changes haven't been enforced or displayed yet due to someone not typing them up and sending them out. Typical Big Casino company mess.


Yogi