cash game 200bb's deep

[outragous76]

Cash gurus I need your help on this hand

I think it is widely accepted that I suck at cash  . Anyway I need help on the hand below (almost ignoring the result which is obv a brag  post of my biggest ever cash pot).

I think a lot of this hand revolves around the meta game rather than the hand, so this is the very important preceding information.

6 handed 2/4 table.

Both the villain and I had been playing well -  he was upto to 1050 and I was up to 900 (ish).

It then seemed like every time I raised he re-raised me (this had happened about 8 times), and on the whole I folded. I think I flat called twice – took the pot once and yielded the next time.

What happened next made me change gear. Some guy to my right re popped me (I played the pot and won), but it made me believe my image was poor with this particular villain and that people thought they could bully me. I am usually aggressive and I think I had slipped into a quiet phase of my game (for whatever reason).

I decided that everyone has seen what is going on so felt the need to leave, or reinforce my image (obv thinking I would get respect too given I had folded a fair bit).

Button raises to $14 – I flat (sb) – and bb (villain) re raises to $56 (same guy who has been re-popping).

I decide that this is a great spot to represent a tricky play so re pop to 165. I think that my flat/re raise makes it look like I have a monster and have had played for the induced squeeze. He tanks and eventually flats (I have A7ss). To be honest I don’t have him on napkins, but I also don’t have him on AA or KK (maybe AK). One of my questions is what range can you realistically assign the villain to, given his frequency of re raising (he had done it with 88 upwards).

Flop comes 7.

In a way this is a gin flop for me. I am not folding, but there is also a juicy pot to take down there. I decide that I am happy to take the pot here – and I am happy to get all my money in – so I overshove the pot all in. 

I think that my play looks really strong (hand wise), but weak in terms of I have a monster that I am trying to protect.  I also don’t think he can call without KK and AA and I didn’t put him on those hands given the frequency and range of his re raises. Obv he would call with a made set – but that is just unlucky and I have outs!

He tanks forever and calls with JJ (which to be honest I can fold if I am him for $635). I am a little freaked – turn comes a blank – river an A – phew!

I probably don’t play this hand optimally – what I want to know is how do you guys play it when so deep? What range do you assign him and how does this affect your play?

Do you bet the flop – build the pot and then miss? How do you proceed on the turn with the worst of it, if he has an overpair?

Also what do you realistically think he put me on to make the call?


I find these spots impossible to play and would really look to you guys for help.

One thing I would say is that if I check the flop – he prob bets about 220 – with 400 behind (effective) – so is he not committing to it in that instance? Therefore it makes the check raise ineffective as he prob doesn’t fold ever?

Thanks in advance

[daviebhoy]

I think the flat/re-raise looks exactly like what you have and not AA/KK.

I also think you gave JJ a chance to fold on the flop and you should have just led out, he would of raised and then you can jam.

[LeedsRhodesy]

i think you got lucky!!!!

[outragous76]

Are we saying that we always want our money in with this hand? If so we want it in on the flop right? I guess providing he doesnt have AA we are about 50/50 -  prob a very slight favourite

Therefore you are saying it is a mistake to not let him bet to get move value - but if he bets he prob doesnt fold?

I dont want to sound like I was playing scared - but i was happy to take down the pot as it was and not risk (2 buy ins) on an effective race.

As for my range to the villain - surely if I over shove he puts me on spades but with 2 overs to his jacks? Making him worse than 50/50?

FInally if we check and he checks behind (unlikely) - what do you do on the turn?

[daviebhoy]

I want my money in with top pair and the nut flush draw. We are way ahead of his range. 50/50 with 88+, 90% favourite against overcards and 30% to his unlikely set.

[MC]

I think the flat/re-raise looks exactly like what you have and not AA/KK.

I also think you gave JJ a chance to fold on the flop and you should have just led out, he would of raised and then you can jam.

Agree with this. There's no way you can represent AA/KK/QQ the way you've played this. Perhaps if you actually had AA/KK this would be a nice mix up play.

As played, I don't see why you need to overbet shove, you're almost playing your hand face up I think. It looks like a flush draw with overcards. A decent bet is in order I think. You're right not to go for the check-raise jam though just incase he checks behind and our hand looks a lot less pretty when we don't improve on the turn...

[AlexMartin]

The guy is isolating you preflop because you are deep and he thinks he has a huge advantage with position. If the guy knew what he was doing it would probs be best to leave unless you are 100% confident in your game and willing to do a lot of funky shit both pre and post. Playing 200bb+ deep v someone very good is tough out of position, even if you are fulflush.


 I dont mind your line that much, i probably go for a crai on the flop opposed to a shove (given his aggression), ur hand is effectively the nuts and he will have unimproved AK/AQ/KQs? a lot of the time which we want to tax prior to letting the hammer drop.

[outragous76]

The guy is isolating you preflop because you are deep and he thinks he has a huge advantage with position. If the guy knew what he was doing it would probs be best to leave unless you are 100% confident in your game and willing to do a lot of funky shit both pre and post. Playing 200bb+ deep v someone very good is tough out of position, even if you are fulflush.


 I dont mind your line that much, i probably go for a crai on the flop opposed to a shove (given his aggression), ur hand is effectively the nuts and he will have unimproved AK/AQ/KQs? a lot of the time which we want to tax prior to letting the hammer drop.

Thanks guys for the great reponses. Most people I have spoke to have said c/r all in. My only thoughts on this were that he isnt folding. Others have disagreed and said he can fold with the 400 behind. Either way i suppose it doesnt matter. The line is +ev by either getting the extra 200 and getting him to fold or by *winning* if he calls my shove.

As for leaving - it honestly didnt enter my head. My PROBLEM is that I can get too funky at times. I just found this a really weird spot. I am a tourney player and i like the induced squeeze against LAGS with AA, but obv you are never that deep and the move is to reshove the 3 bet pre. I guess it jsut doesnt translate when you are 200BB's deep in a cash game.

I am truely surprised by how many people say I have played my hand face up. As for the call with the JJ - I still think it is a fold for $600+. I suppose he must have taken the view if he is calling pre - what kind of flop is he looking for other than set mining (not really getting his price). Dunno

[Cf]

I think you played the hand fine. Ignoring the preeflop stuff...

Once we get to the flop I don't think there's much you can do wrong. You're in an interesting spot where after you've shoved you're not too bothered whether the villian calls or not. Given it's 50/50 (very slightly in your favour) you're happy with what's in the middle, and if you get called you're playing for a big pot as a slight favourite.

CRAI is an option, but this depends on how likely you think the villian is to bet.

I'd prefer to bet out at this flop, with a fairly weak looking bet. Something like $150-200. In the event of him flat calling we've now built the pot to a large enough amount that we can just shove the turn. But what the bet also does is allows him to make a play for his entire stack with overcards (AK and the like).

The CRAI line only gets him to commit a smaller amount with overcards. Obviously, if he has an overpair then it doesn't matter which line we take, it's probably still going in. The danger of course is him checking behind on the flop, leading us to a slightly more awkward situation on the turn.

Your shove is ok, but misses potential value from AK type hands.