Live Poker - pushing any 2

[outragous76]

I played the 100 GUKPT side event yesterday and busted 16th. I was literally card dead all day  - and just found myself finding spots to chip up, and stealing blinds and antes in the mid stages.

However - we got down to 20 - and i couldnt find a hand. I got down to 8 bigs (1000/2000 200). I had already seen the big stack snap  call a 5 bb open shove with ATC (ie he didnt look). The big stack was in part of my shoving zone (ie in bb if i am shoving the hi-jack). Most stacks behind were 30bb +.

So  - the question - how many bb's do you let youself get down to before open shoving (blind), (my theory being looking can only put you off!)  Given that the ave stack was circa 18bb's - and any double thru would have me in a good position again relative to the field.

I open shoved 8bb's (obv got looked up by AK). People looked surprised when I said i hadnt looked! I thought this was standard? Was it too soon - or not soon enough? I dont like shoving +10bb's as it always looks weak to me!

[boldie]

TK will say it's way too soon to just shove with 8 BBs...others will say it's too late.

Obv having the big stack calling station in your pushing range is not ideal and you'd widen your range a bit...but I start seriously contemplating shoving near 12BBs when it can still hurt BB the calling station.

[Simon Galloway]

TK will say it's way too soon to just shove with 8 BBs...others will say it's too late.

Obv having the big stack calling station in your pushing range is not ideal and you'd widen your range a bit...but I start seriously contemplating shoving near 12BBs when it can still hurt BB the calling station.

Christallmighty you  have a borderline resteal stack!

inbeforetikay.

[GreekStein]

TK will say it's way too soon to just shove with 8 BBs...others will say it's too late.

Obv having the big stack calling station in your pushing range is not ideal

Means we can push hands like Q9 and know they are ahead of his calling range which is good when we might otherwise lay these hands down. Finding pairs, decent Kings and any ace are more sexy when someone is calling without much concern because we are a short stack. Gives us more chance for that double up we need and to get back in contention.

I think we should be looking at our hand though. I'm not just blind shoving 104

[outragous76]

It is easy to shove a semi genuine hand  - even suited connectors! I saw nothing for 3 hours. I literally just found spots (squeezing etc)

I mean I ran into AK - so he is never passing - and I had K6 - to be honest i was kind of starting to think any face card would do! So i might have chosen this spot anyway from the button.

For the sake of arguement - lets say you knew you were going to be dealt 63o everyhand for the next 5 orbits - when is go time?

[action man]

in this type of tournament, resteal stack 15bb-18bb shoving stack 8-10bb seems fine

[boldie]

in this type of tournament, resteal stack 15bb-18bb shoving stack 8-10bb seems fine

this, to your second question.

[thetank]

What's the relevance of having been card dead? (genuine question, not rhetorical)

The only thing I think of is image, if you've not played a hand for so long that you think your opponents might put you on a tighter range and call less then I can see being card dead having relevance to what range you should shove.
If you have been playing hands though, finding spots and squeezing as you say, then maybe the tight image isn't there, which promts my question... what is the relevance of having been card dead.

[Simon Galloway]

Always hard to follow the logic of some.  I have been card dead in a tourny and shoved 10BBs and been called very light.  I was informed 'you have been so card dead I knew you would be making a move with no hand soon'

[outragous76]

What's the relevance of having been card dead? (genuine question, not rhetorical)

The only thing I think of is image, if you've not played a hand for so long that you think your opponents might put you on a tighter range and call less then I can see being card dead having relevance to what range you should shove.
If you have been playing hands though, finding spots and squeezing as you say, then maybe the tight image isn't there, which promts my question... what is the relevance of having been card dead.

Tank

Being card dead was the only reason I didnt ship the whole lot! 

The point being that in any tourney you either need to gamble it up - or have a hand worthy of a show down.

If i said i had AJ - you would say get em in with <12bb's.

I know the point you are trying to make - but the card dead thing is me asking at what point should you make your stand. To be honest - any suited connector would have looked like gold and would have gone in. I am just trying to pose the question at what point do you do it without a hand.

Your statement is like saying at what point in any tourney does your hand matter!

[Rupert]

with that dude there i'd look at my cards and 5x every hand that isn't a pair or like A2s+ A7o+ K9+ etc

[daviebhoy]

If you are likely to get called light then I am tightening up my pushing range instead of loosening up. I think you can push ATC when you think there is a good chance everyone folds but if you are likely to get to showdown then I want to make sure I'm not pushing 25o from MP.

I also think your post is ignoring position. I would be pushing genuine hands still from EP with 5+ players behind me. Q7+ and connected cards would be getting shoved from the hijack onwards when pot is unopened hoping to get called by big stack. I think with 8 BBs you still have time to pick up something in that range to push. I think you can push ATC without looking from SB if pot is unopened when it comes to you.