Butchered hand of PLOH?

[ALASKAN5IVE]

yoyo - first hand analysis thread ive started so be patient! lol

sat playing 2/2 dealers choice game - 7 handed - sat with approx £550, playing 5OH on the button, everyone on the table has me covered.

dealt - 

limped around to be so pot it from the button for another 14 quid - called in 5 spots - so the pot is now 84 quid.

FLOP - 

checked to me so i bet 65, called in one spot (hijack).

TURN - 

Villain no leads for £120 - with me playing 460 total, what's your line here???

 

[TightEnd]

welcome to blonde

p.s ship it in, fade nut hearts or nut spades which call your shippage. I suppose he could have  for the split currently and the redraw

[GreekStein]

how much does Villain have behind? Not that it really matters I'm 99% shipping it here

[ALASKAN5IVE]

he's playing like 800 - 900 total, he does have  along with  , i hate his line especially 7 handed, but is there any justification for a peel here?

[outragous76]

he's playing like 800 - 900 total, he does have  along with  , i hate his line especially 7 handed, but is there any justification for a peel here?

Im no PLO expert - but i think you can only peel here if you fold to the H S or pair falling.

What you need to remember is that there will be no more value in the hand if a brick falls. If you are happy with the pot as it stands call - i get em all in!

[ALASKAN5IVE]

hes not leading that turn imo with anything other than the nuts, i.e. K10, imo. coz its such a spewy line for him to lead anything else i think, dont think im passing the river w/e, but am i gaining value by just peeling here possibly. obv i want it all in here if the river bricks i gaining etc, but might villain turn his hand into a bluff on the river if it bricks (i.e. non spade / heart, pair)?

[EvilPie]

hes not leading that turn imo with anything other than the nuts, i.e. K10, imo. coz its such a spewy line for him to lead anything else i think, dont think im passing the river w/e, but am i gaining value by just peeling here possibly. obv i want it all in here if the river bricks i gaining etc, but might villain turn his hand into a bluff on the river if it bricks (i.e. non spade / heart, pair)?

I think you're over analysing this hand.

It seems quite clear that he's got the same nut hand now as you so he's never passing so just shove it in.

It would have to be a very specific holding for him to be free rolling against your hand so get it in now and hope that it's you who improves.

I don't mind oppos line. Call to make it look like a flush draw then bet what looks like a brick card when he had the nuts all along. Nice play and likely to get a shove from a set or good flush draw.

[ALASKAN5IVE]

hes not leading that turn imo with anything other than the nuts, i.e. K10, imo. coz its such a spewy line for him to lead anything else i think, dont think im passing the river w/e, but am i gaining value by just peeling here possibly. obv i want it all in here if the river bricks i gaining etc, but might villain turn his hand into a bluff on the river if it bricks (i.e. non spade / heart, pair)?

I think you're over analysing this hand.

It seems quite clear that he's got the same nut hand now as you so he's never passing so just shove it in.

It would have to be a very specific holding for him to be free rolling against your hand so get it in now and hope that it's you who improves.

I don't mind oppos line. Call to make it look like a flush draw then bet what looks like a brick card when he had the nuts all along. Nice play and likely to get a shove from a set or good flush draw.

yeh ty my thoughts really - just wanted to make sure the jam was standard tbh - coz dont have either nut flush draws, but feelings after were i jam there 100% of the time - tbf his check call the flop seems to make sense as hes flopped the abs world!

[paulhouk03]

i would never shove here
whats the point?
 i would just flat here and see a river then decide

[EvilPie]

i would never shove here
whats the point?
 i would just flat here and see a river then decide

Decide what exactly?

You've got the nuts now with 2 x 2nd nut redraws and only 1 card to come. This is as clear a raise as I've ever seen. Possibly not shove if you want to induce a shove from your oppo but surely you want all the money in here.

If the river pairs are you passing? What if one of your flushes makes it? Are you planning on getting to the end as cheaply as possible?

I'm interested to know what your plan would be if you flat when the following happen:

a - the river's a brick and villain checks

b - the river's a heart and villain checks

c - the river's a spade and villain bets the pot

d - the river pairs and villain checks

e - the river pairs and villain bets the pot

[Simon Galloway]

i would never shove here
whats the point?
 i would just flat here and see a river then decide

Decide what exactly?

You've got the nuts now with 2 x 2nd nut redraws and only 1 card to come. This is as clear a raise as I've ever seen. Possibly not shove if you want to induce a shove from your oppo but surely you want all the money in here.

If the river pairs are you passing? What if one of your flushes makes it? Are you planning on getting to the end as cheaply as possible?

I'm interested to know what your plan would be if you flat when the following happen:

a - the river's a brick and villain checks

b - the river's a heart and villain checks

c - the river's a spade and villain bets the pot

d - the river pairs and villain checks

e - the river pairs and villain bets the pot

Matt,
I'm sure I get it in on the turn here, and spoken as a fairly rocky omaha player, that should be that.  If I did decide I was only calling the turn though, it would be with a pre-conceived plan:

a) let him have it if a heart comes - we think he has
b) stick it up him if a spade comes - our flush is better through the back door
c) obv it goes in if a brick comes
d) stick it in if checked to on a paired board,  - this is the only one that actually turns out to be a bad idea given his hand.

[EvilPie]

i would never shove here
whats the point?
 i would just flat here and see a river then decide

Decide what exactly?

You've got the nuts now with 2 x 2nd nut redraws and only 1 card to come. This is as clear a raise as I've ever seen. Possibly not shove if you want to induce a shove from your oppo but surely you want all the money in here.

If the river pairs are you passing? What if one of your flushes makes it? Are you planning on getting to the end as cheaply as possible?

I'm interested to know what your plan would be if you flat when the following happen:

a - the river's a brick and villain checks

b - the river's a heart and villain checks

c - the river's a spade and villain bets the pot

d - the river pairs and villain checks

e - the river pairs and villain bets the pot

Matt,
I'm sure I get it in on the turn here, and spoken as a fairly rocky omaha player, that should be that.  If I did decide I was only calling the turn though, it would be with a pre-conceived plan:

a) let him have it if a heart comes - we think he has
b) stick it up him if a spade comes - our flush is better through the back door
c) obv it goes in if a brick comes
d) stick it in if checked to on a paired board,  - this is the only one that actually turns out to be a bad idea given his hand.

So if we think he has  isn't that all the more reason to get it in now?

We've got our spade draw which we think is good and we've got 2 blockers against his redraw (assuming he's got it of course). Therefore we are ahead.

What if it pairs and villain leads out? Do we give up?

[Simon Galloway]

So if we think he has  isn't that all the more reason to get it in now?

We've got our spade draw which we think is good and we've got 2 blockers against his redraw (assuming he's got it of course). Therefore we are ahead.

What if it pairs and villain leads out? Do we give up?

If it pairs and villain leads out, we give up. If we get outplayed, fair enough.  If we have the hands right, getting it all in negates the advantage of being able to play the river perfectly, in return for being very slightly in front now. 

It's difficult to keep playing devil's advocate tho when I would have smashed it in on the turn with everyone else...

[paulhouk03]

i would never shove here
whats the point?
 i would just flat here and see a river then decide

Decide what exactly?

You've got the nuts now with 2 x 2nd nut redraws and only 1 card to come. This is as clear a raise as I've ever seen. Possibly not shove if you want to induce a shove from your oppo but surely you want all the money in here.

If the river pairs are you passing? What if one of your flushes makes it? Are you planning on getting to the end as cheaply as possible?

I'm interested to know what your plan would be if you flat when the following happen:

a - the river's a brick and villain checks

b - the river's a heart and villain checks

c - the river's a spade and villain bets the pot

d - the river pairs and villain checks

e - the river pairs and villain bets the pot

i am more of a feel player

a. value bet
b value bet
c call or reraise
d check behind or shove
e go on read and feeling

[Neishe]

U have the nuts with very good redraws, bet the full pot and hope to get a call from a naked K-10!