Bubble move...

[david3103]

4 left 3 pay
blinds 400/800
I have 12,000 UTG and pick up 
Button has about 7,000 and is playing v tight
SB has c3,500 and is also tight
BB has c30,000 and is Mr Loose

I raised to 2,400 and it's folded to BB who eventually calls

Flop is 

BB leads for 4,000...

[GreekStein]

raise less pre.

Jam now and hope u hold.

[EvilPie]

Just call. Give him the chance to fire again on the turn.

If he checks the turn just shove and hope he see's it as a desperate move. He might just pay you off with the K or J.

I can't see him having the ace here unless he's been very clever and trappy pre. Given the stacks I'd expect him to shove a decent ace pre and just take the pot down following your raise. If he's got a slightly better ace than you the board makes a split a very high possibility anyway.

One thing's for sure you've already invested too much to pass now that you've hit. You want to find a way of getting the money in the middle.

Also raise less pre.

[david3103]

Raise less pre is a fairly standard comment here and I am sure that it is sound advice.

What should I raise to? Assuming that I should be raising from this position with any A?

[boldie]

Raise less pre is a fairly standard comment here and I am sure that it is sound advice.

What should I raise to? Assuming that I should be raising from this position with any A?

2k'ish will do. 2.5 times the BB is fine.

[kukushkin88]

If we make it less pre and he shoves are we meant to fold?

We are nowhere near deep enough for anything fancy. Looks like a shove >> fold >> the alternatives preflop to me.

[GreekStein]

My standard open here is to like 2100.

[boldie]

If we make it less pre and he shoves are we meant to fold?

We are nowhere near deep enough for anything fancy. Looks like a shove >> fold >> the alternatives preflop to me.

Why does shove >>>>raise? If you shove you get only called by a better hand. If you raise a nice amount you can still pick up the blinds and get a  worse hand to come over the top...happy days.

[GreekStein]

If we make it less pre and he shoves are we meant to fold?

We are nowhere near deep enough for anything fancy. Looks like a shove >> fold >> the alternatives preflop to me.

Why does shove >>>>raise? If you shove you get only called by a better hand. If you raise a nice amount you can still pick up the blinds and get a  worse hand to come over the top...happy days.

Shoving is unexploitable here i think Kuku is saying Boldo

[boldie]

If we make it less pre and he shoves are we meant to fold?

We are nowhere near deep enough for anything fancy. Looks like a shove >> fold >> the alternatives preflop to me.

Why does shove >>>>raise? If you shove you get only called by a better hand. If you raise a nice amount you can still pick up the blinds and get a  worse hand to come over the top...happy days.

Shoving is unexploitable here i think Kuku is saying Boldo

True..but there isn't an advantage to it IMO. Raise >>>>>>>>Shove x a million IMO.

If you raise pre it can give him a chance to come over the top with a worse hand.
If you shove he won't. You decide pre what you want to do...if you're happy to get all your chips in the middle then raise pwns shove soo hard it's unreal as you'll snap any push.

[TheChipPrince]

Shoving 15 BB's is not the right move here, unless the ante's are high.

Its like saying shoving AA is +EV, it is, but that doesn't necessarily make it the best/optimal thing to do...

[GreekStein]

Shoving 15 BB's is not the right move here, unless the ante's are high.

Its like saying shoving AA is +EV, it is, but that doesn't necessarily make it the best/optimal thing to do...

No no I didn't say it was and I prefer to raise myself to 2100 but I assumed thats what Kuku meant

[TheChipPrince]

Shoving 15 BB's is not the right move here, unless the ante's are high.

Its like saying shoving AA is +EV, it is, but that doesn't necessarily make it the best/optimal thing to do...

No no I didn't say it was and I prefer to raise myself to 2100 but I assumed thats what Kuku meant

I was refering to Kuku... 

[kukushkin88]

Without the short stack who has an M <3, the bubble (this is not an sng based on the number of chips in play) and the huge (relatively) stack in the bb, a raise is clearly the best play, here I'm not so sure. I think he calls knowing he can pressure us a lot of time post flop. As it happens we're happy to get in now but a lot of the time he leads and we're calling it off ace high or giving up 20% of our chips.

[boldie]

Without the short stack who has an M <3, the bubble (this is not an sng based on the number of chips in play) and the huge (relatively) stack in the bb, a raise is clearly the best play, here I'm not so sure. I think he calls knowing he can pressure us a lot of time post flop. As it happens we're happy to get in now but a lot of the time he leads and we're calling it off ace high or giving up 20% of our chips.

OK but then you're saying a fold>>>a shove really.