top two in the sb

[MANTIS01]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

[George2Loose]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

[outragous76]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

this

way too many scare cards - if he wants to be aggro - let him make the mistake

[MANTIS01]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

Would you go along for the ride with 1 pair after bet-raise-re-raise George?...Would you shove 1 pair after that action? Yep, a little less than half the deck could cool the action on the turn...but more than half the deck doesn't. Raising the flop kills the action for certain imo.

[Simon Galloway]

It's a small plus, but plus if you do smooth the flop you keep all your options open should the UTG now spring to life.....

[George2Loose]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

Would you go along for the ride with 1 pair after bet-raise-re-raise George?...Would you shove 1 pair after that action? Yep, a little less than half the deck could cool the action on the turn...but more than half the deck doesn't. Raising the flop kills the action for certain imo.

He may not shove with with one pair but he may flat due to the dynamic of utg. Like you said- he doesn't have to have anything to make it 10k so might put the big blind who now decides to 3 bet post flop on a move. I think he would possibly shove a draw like KJ.

If you smooth now, do you lead the turn when a safe card comes or check again?

[MANTIS01]

It's a small plus, but plus if you do smooth the flop you keep all your options open should the UTG now spring to life.....

For sure. Also there's enough evidence to suggest either villain isn't all that strong at all...piddly bet & raise of piddly bet. So all this talk of pushing to stack never happens imo. You would only raise here to win the hand now vs a POSSIBLE draw that may well not exist.

[outragous76]

but lets assume they fold. you add nearly 1/3rd to your stack. this is far more acceptable than facing a crappy turn an driver decission. A very good player isnt going to let you off lightly if the scare card comes - and there are 2 more streets of pain OOP!

I think if UTG gets it in here (After the raise) he has a donk played AA  - or the 77

I am far happier here to take the pot as it stands

[MANTIS01]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

Would you go along for the ride with 1 pair after bet-raise-re-raise George?...Would you shove 1 pair after that action? Yep, a little less than half the deck could cool the action on the turn...but more than half the deck doesn't. Raising the flop kills the action for certain imo.

He may not shove with with one pair but he may flat due to the dynamic of utg. Like you said- he doesn't have to have anything to make it 10k so might put the big blind who now decides to 3 bet post flop on a move. I think he would possibly shove a draw like KJ.

If you smooth now, do you lead the turn when a safe card comes or check again?

85k BB checking to make a move for half his stack vs UTG bet & big stack re-raise is some move imo. I don't think he would consider that realistic. The texture of the flop let's cut-off discount a number of Vinny hands e.g. Q-Q, 10-10...but he can readily put him on a draw...so you still have options come a safe turn. Also, calling means scare cards, if they do come, look like they have prob hit you, so no need to lose initiative in the hand.

[GreekStein]

The problem is the gay 2k bet. Now having to re-raise both looks uber strong.

[George2Loose]

I think we can prob discount UTG from having a strong hand with his piddly little bet. Thing is Vin, your reaction is to lol at that bet...because the bet is ghey. But aggressive 3-bet cut-off guy obv can have a similar dim view of this bet. With 160k at his disposal he really doesn't need much of anything here, he just needs to lol at the bet as well. It's not like the guy has shown any reluctance to raise people off pots. If you now come over the top you tell them both you have a made hand...and you're not going anywhere. 7-7 will love the fact you're committing and weak hands will fold...don't think you can stack 1 pair by raising. If you do raise you are putting in almost 1/2 your stack which ties your hands, pushing is for too much, but calling is the best way to stack worse, particularly vs a LAG oppo on a rainbow board. Call and play a little poker imo.

Problem with this is Mantis there's so many turn cards that will kill the action on this board. I think you can raise to 25k here with V's stack to either incude a shove or get value against one pair.

Would you go along for the ride with 1 pair after bet-raise-re-raise George?...Would you shove 1 pair after that action? Yep, a little less than half the deck could cool the action on the turn...but more than half the deck doesn't. Raising the flop kills the action for certain imo.

He may not shove with with one pair but he may flat due to the dynamic of utg. Like you said- he doesn't have to have anything to make it 10k so might put the big blind who now decides to 3 bet post flop on a move. I think he would possibly shove a draw like KJ.

If you smooth now, do you lead the turn when a safe card comes or check again?

85k BB checking to make a move for half his stack vs UTG bet & big stack re-raise is some move imo. I don't think he would consider that realistic. The texture of the flop let's cut-off discount a number of Vinny hands e.g. Q-Q, 10-10...but he can readily put him on a draw...so you still have options come a safe turn. Also, calling means scare cards, if they do come, look like they have prob hit you, so no need to lose initiative in the hand.

ok- for arguments sake- would you ever re raise the 10k with any of your range? Or are you flatting 100%? Ie: most top pairs, draws etc etc

[MANTIS01]

but lets assume they fold. you add nearly 1/3rd to your stack. this is far more acceptable than facing a crappy turn an driver decission. A very good player isnt going to let you off lightly if the scare card comes - and there are 2 more streets of pain OOP!

I think if UTG gets it in here (After the raise) he has a donk played AA  - or the 77

I am far happier here to take the pot as it stands

Buddy, if the flop came down    would you still be happy to raise the other two guys off the pot to take what's there? There are 9 hearts, 9 cards that pair the board and 2 10's that could mean we're beat come the turn. That's more cards that beat us than in this example and so more awkward decisions than here. Would you be happy with an extra 12k after hitting the nuts or do your ambitions to win the tournament go further than that? In this hand we can prob discount Q's & 10's so we're only losing to 7-7. If we raise to commit 7-7 always gets us anyhow. So we should play this hand as if it's the nuts imo. If you still raise the nuts on that flop fair enough.

George, I would only raise to take the pot down on the flop...cos I reckon raising should take the pot down.

[boldie]

The problem is the gay 2k bet. Now having to re-raise both looks uber strong.

This..anything other than flatting looks very strong..flatting at least makes it look like you could be drawing.

It's a tricky situation this; You flat. BB gets odds to call with any draw (if he has one) and there are plenty turn cards that would complete a draw and you are OOP. You flat and look like you're drawing, even if neither of the other guys are too many turn cards kill your action.

You raise and you might as well have your hand face up..if neither of the guys have a big hand (bottom two+) you have just killed your action as well.

I prefer flatting but would Hollywood it for a while and just hope they buy it.

[GreekStein]

The problem is the gay 2k bet. Now having to re-raise both looks uber strong.

This..anything other than flatting looks very strong..flatting at least makes it look like you could be drawing.

It's a tricky situation this; You flat. BB gets odds to call with any draw (if he has one) and there are plenty turn cards that would complete a draw and you are OOP. You flat and look like you're drawing, even if neither of the other guys are too many turn cards kill your action.

You raise and you might as well have your hand face up..if neither of the guys have a big hand (bottom two+) you have just killed your action as well.

I prefer flatting but would Hollywood it for a while and just hope they buy it.

I don't think he can flat with 70k behind and one person still to act. He doesn't really want the pot small with people drawing against his hand. I think raising now is the right play but its unfortunate that a decent player can lay down a strongish hand which they might not have done if we were only raising one bet.

Check-reraising is just too strong.

[boldie]

The problem is the gay 2k bet. Now having to re-raise both looks uber strong.

This..anything other than flatting looks very strong..flatting at least makes it look like you could be drawing.

It's a tricky situation this; You flat. BB gets odds to call with any draw (if he has one) and there are plenty turn cards that would complete a draw and you are OOP. You flat and look like you're drawing, even if neither of the other guys are too many turn cards kill your action.

You raise and you might as well have your hand face up..if neither of the guys have a big hand (bottom two+) you have just killed your action as well.

I prefer flatting but would Hollywood it for a while and just hope they buy it.

I don't think he can flat with 70k behind and one person still to act. He doesn't really want the pot small with people drawing against his hand. I think raising now is the right play but its unfortunate that a decent player can lay down a strongish hand which they might not have done if we were only raising one bet.

Check-reraising is just too strong.

It's a bit of a bastard this spot (when it comes to getting the max out of it), you're out of position and almost everything you do now is going to look strong. I don't mind keeping a draw in on the turn TBH..I just want as much money as possible in the pot now as I'm almost certainly still ahead.
I therefore think flatting might be the best way to achieve that (The problem is of course that you're still OOP on the turn and might find it goes, check, check..and then you've given two free cards away)