Hand from Venetian $550 tourney,done tikay styleeeeeeeeeee

[George2Loose]

nomination for most butchered PHA thread of all time?

[cambo]

old guy had 12.5k imo

[Dewi_cool]

Fold, Tikay type is retired and probs has a boat

[boldie]

nomination for most butchered PHA thread of all time?

yeah I think that award is pretty much in the bag.

[StuartHopkin]

surely this just runs, call and dont even put your chips in, just wait to get half the pot?

[AlexMartin]

is it safe to say we're ready for your action and/or the flop now?

im not...i would fold and go for a smoke

hmmm as an ex-smoker I can advise that the cut-off is the hand to fold and go for a smoke, returning in time for your bb....

made me lol. i think u used to have a leak doubleup

 all about timing and letting utg and utg+1 sail.

[mondatoo]

LOL @ you lot when my laptos fkd but woteva,why didn't anyone ask for stack sizes pre for the other players,i've said the old guy shoved for 10k thus his stack was 12.4k i also said everyone folded back around to me and yes only the original riaser is left.

I thought it was a pretty standard spot but celtic disagreed with every which way that i played the hand and thought it would be interesting to put up on here,so basically blame celtic imo  

PS I called original raiser shoved (who i said in op had 80k stack) i thought for a bit then folded,he showed A7 old guy had flush draw,sorry took so long to get to conclusion now everyone can be results orientated and say obv fold.

PPS It is a standard fold but pretty sure not everyone would said they'd have folded if i done it as i was but like a say laptop broke and don't want to keep everyone waiting again

I'm off to untwist my knickers,enjoy  

[Graham C]

It's a standard fold?  Don't think it's that standard is it?  If the turn or river comes higher than a 7 then we're choppity choping.  The tie is favourite in this spot. 

[boldie]

It's a standard fold?  Don't think it's that standard is it?  If the turn or river comes higher than a 7 then we're choppity choping.  The tie is favourite in this spot. 

yeah it pretty much is a fold for me when the other guys shoves for 80k'ish. You don't know that he has a 7 and you're hoping to split the pot at best (if he shows a J or Q you're pretty much screwed)

[daviebhoy]

What a horrible hand. 3-bet pre would have saved us a lot of grief on the flop imo.

[MANTIS01]

Standard fold with the all-in dynamic. Villain more likely to call or fold a f/d rather than jam it. We look like an Ace...that never folds...so a jam can only mean a bigger Ace. Gambling your stack on whether it's over/under a certain card...especially after ep pre-flop raise...is not good imo.

[LuckyLloyd]

This was a shove preflop. There is 13400 in the middle when it gets around to you which is 20% of your stack or thereabouts. The Venetian structures are deceptively quick and shallow. Yeah, it's been slow up to now but it speeds up significantly over the coming three hours or so. But, given that they are a "deepstack zomg" a shove here has a much higher chance of getting through. As American players will fold small pairs and decent aces behind the original raiser because they "can find a better spot". If you do get called, it will be from a 10BBish stack usually, but the amount of money in the middle is going to compensate for you chasing an Ace or deuce or more complicated dogging.

So ship, and the pot will usually be pushed to you after they the accumulated 3minutes of hollywooding they undertake.

[MANTIS01]

This was a shove preflop. There is 13400 in the middle when it gets around to you which is 20% of your stack or thereabouts. The Venetian structures are deceptively quick and shallow. Yeah, it's been slow up to now but it speeds up significantly over the coming three hours or so. But, given that they are a "deepstack zomg" a shove here has a much higher chance of getting through. As American players will fold small pairs and decent aces behind the original raiser because they "can find a better spot". If you do get called, it will be from a 10BBish stack usually, but the amount of money in the middle is going to compensate for you chasing an Ace or deuce or more complicated dogging.

So ship, and the pot will usually be pushed to you after they the accumulated 3minutes of hollywooding they undertake.

In Celtic’s hand “top two in the sb” you posted about the importance of balancing your range when playing poker. Not a groundbreaking idea you said. So what if we bring the idea of range balancing to this situation. Do you ever shove a premium hand in this spot? Would you look down, see A-A, and ship 54k worth of chips into this pot? No you would not. In fact, considering your expectation is everyone folding, that would be an error anyway. So because you never balance your range when you shove the first mistake you encounter by shoving is to reveal you have a mediocre hand.

The second mistake is to offer such attractive pot odds to the short-stacks believing the “deepstack” nature of the tournament will encourage them to fold and wait for better spots. The problem is with some of your oppos holding 10bb’s or less the “deepstack” idea is irrelevant. Those guys will be feeling a sense of urgency to get chips...and what better way than here? If you were in that spot holding A-10 or 7-7 (very realistic hands randoms have called with) would you fold and wait for a better spot? with those odds? knowing your oppo is weak? What better spot is there? It’s certainly not a good spot for you to be spewing your chips in hoping to hit a deuce or whatever. I don’t think your FE is anywhere near what you think it is.

The third mistake is once you get called and table Ace-deuce your image will be LAG. Now considering your opinion is that this game is full of nits who’s mentality is “can find a better spot” and thus be pressured out of pots you really want to be building a solid image to errrr pressure them out of pots. By tabling a LAG image you now blow control at the table and get these villains thinking that better spot is vs you. So you sacrifice the best strat to win the game as a whole in order to gamble with this one individual hand alone. There’s loads of other stuff as well such as you better hope the original raiser doesn’t have premium and you don’t know the stack, styles etc of the other players.

Pushing is not good poker.

[EvilPie]

This was a shove preflop. There is 13400 in the middle when it gets around to you which is 20% of your stack or thereabouts. The Venetian structures are deceptively quick and shallow. Yeah, it's been slow up to now but it speeds up significantly over the coming three hours or so. But, given that they are a "deepstack zomg" a shove here has a much higher chance of getting through. As American players will fold small pairs and decent aces behind the original raiser because they "can find a better spot". If you do get called, it will be from a 10BBish stack usually, but the amount of money in the middle is going to compensate for you chasing an Ace or deuce or more complicated dogging.

So ship, and the pot will usually be pushed to you after they the accumulated 3minutes of hollywooding they undertake.

In Celtic’s hand “top two in the sb” you posted about the importance of balancing your range when playing poker. Not a groundbreaking idea you said. So what if we bring the idea of range balancing to this situation. Do you ever shove a premium hand in this spot? Would you look down, see A-A, and ship 54k worth of chips into this pot? No you would not. In fact, considering your expectation is everyone folding, that would be an error anyway. So because you never balance your range when you shove the first mistake you encounter by shoving is to reveal you have a mediocre hand.

The second mistake is to offer such attractive pot odds to the short-stacks believing the “deepstack” nature of the tournament will encourage them to fold and wait for better spots. The problem is with some of your oppos holding 10bb’s or less the “deepstack” idea is irrelevant. Those guys will be feeling a sense of urgency to get chips...and what better way than here? If you were in that spot holding A-10 or 7-7 (very realistic hands randoms have called with) would you fold and wait for a better spot? with those odds? knowing your oppo is weak? What better spot is there? It’s certainly not a good spot for you to be spewing your chips in hoping to hit a deuce or whatever. I don’t think your FE is anywhere near what you think it is.

The third mistake is once you get called and table Ace-deuce your image will be LAG. Now considering your opinion is that this game is full of nits who’s mentality is “can find a better spot” and thus be pressured out of pots you really want to be building a solid image to errrr pressure them out of pots. By tabling a LAG image you now blow control at the table and get these villains thinking that better spot is vs you. So you sacrifice the best strat to win the game as a whole in order to gamble with this one individual hand alone. There’s loads of other stuff as well such as you better hope the original raiser doesn’t have premium and you don’t know the stack, styles etc of the other players.

Pushing is not good poker.

 

[GreekStein]

This was a shove preflop. There is 13400 in the middle when it gets around to you which is 20% of your stack or thereabouts. The Venetian structures are deceptively quick and shallow. Yeah, it's been slow up to now but it speeds up significantly over the coming three hours or so. But, given that they are a "deepstack zomg" a shove here has a much higher chance of getting through. As American players will fold small pairs and decent aces behind the original raiser because they "can find a better spot". If you do get called, it will be from a 10BBish stack usually, but the amount of money in the middle is going to compensate for you chasing an Ace or deuce or more complicated dogging.

So ship, and the pot will usually be pushed to you after they the accumulated 3minutes of hollywooding they undertake.

In Celtic’s hand “top two in the sb” you posted about the importance of balancing your range when playing poker. Not a groundbreaking idea you said. So what if we bring the idea of range balancing to this situation. Do you ever shove a premium hand in this spot? Would you look down, see A-A, and ship 54k worth of chips into this pot? No you would not. In fact, considering your expectation is everyone folding, that would be an error anyway. So because you never balance your range when you shove the first mistake you encounter by shoving is to reveal you have a mediocre hand.

So because you think they don't have Aces that means they have a mediocre hand?! huh?

A lot of people overbet shove big hands aswell and I even saw Menlo or Timex write somewhere that at one point he was using it a lot to good effect.

I don't think you can say 'no you would not'. If the situation was right why not. If you're holding AA and you think this looks like a squeeze shoving may be the best way to get a call from really weak hands like 66.