Ruling?

[StuartHopkin]

The reason I posted this, is that the dealer royally ballsed it up - but I liked the ruling from the floor (he wasn't the TD, just one of the more competent dealers, who therefore wasn't actually dealing at that time...) as it was based on common sense and in the spirit of the game.

Not sure the ruling would have been the same elsewhere, which was why I posed the question.

I cant even think of any other outcome.
And if anyone says anything about card touching the muck being anything more than a pile the cards sit in.....................

[Boba Fett]

Wasnt a riverboat dealer was it?

[relaedgc]

I don't really like that they dug through the muck and returned the cards.

[Cf]

I don't really like that they dug through the muck and returned the cards.

Why not?

[relaedgc]

Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but feel that it's a little open to abuse. As far as I am concerned, the muck is the point of no return. If the cards are in there, then it's too late. If you're going to do something in the interests of fairness, then I'd give the player in question his chips back if the hand was mucked accidentally. But let him reclaim them? Eh. I just don't like it.

[Graham C]

I thought APAT had their own regular TD?

[kinboshi]

Perhaps it's just me, but I can't help but feel that it's a little open to abuse. As far as I am concerned, the muck is the point of no return. If the cards are in there, then it's too late. If you're going to do something in the interests of fairness, then I'd give the player in question his chips back if the hand was mucked accidentally. But let him reclaim them? Eh. I just don't like it.

Is that fair to the player who made the initial raise and had a caller, who now no longer has to call?

[kinboshi]

I thought APAT had their own regular TD?

The casinos provide the TD for APAT events. 

[Jon MW]

I thought APAT had their own regular TD?

Not for ages

[relaedgc]

Speaking on a purely personal level, I would be happier without the caller than having someone get to reclaim cards out of the muck. It seems the fairest conclusion in my eyes, given this error strewn hand.

I've never been to a venue that has ever allowed the reclamation of a hand after it has been drawn into the muck, and I've seen people re-raise pre and have their hand mucked. Which was AA. The solution was to return his chips, not dig out the hand.

Now, given that the precise same thing might have happened here, do you think our original raiser is going to be unhappy if that were the case? Entirely redundant point, I know, but that's the kind of thinking I am trying to avoid. Fairest doesn't mean it's going to be ideal for everyone, but I think that's the way I'd have settled the situation.

[BulldozerD]

irrespective of the preflop balls up etc, isn't it the player's responsibilty to protect his cards, even from an over zealous dealer?

Therefore i would have thought the ruling would be to declare his hand dead (mucked) and leave his chips (ie a call) in the middle. Not sure i like retrieving cards out of the muck at all.

[phatomch]

i hate the ruling of people getting cards back, i was always uber strict on it if its in the muck its gone, if a player folds his blind by mistatke even if its just come over the line its gone.

no player should ever get cards back

[relaedgc]

Glad I am not the only person that doesn't like this.

[kinboshi]

Speaking on a purely personal level, I would be happier without the caller than having someone get to reclaim cards out of the muck. It seems the fairest conclusion in my eyes, given this error strewn hand.

I've never been to a venue that has ever allowed the reclamation of a hand after it has been drawn into the muck, and I've seen people re-raise pre and have their hand mucked. Which was AA. The solution was to return his chips, not dig out the hand.

Now, given that the precise same thing might have happened here, do you think our original raiser is going to be unhappy if that were the case? Entirely redundant point, I know, but that's the kind of thinking I am trying to avoid. Fairest doesn't mean it's going to be ideal for everyone, but I think that's the way I'd have settled the situation.

He was the one who called the floor.

[relaedgc]

Yes,  but that doesn't mean he called the floor because he wanted the other guy to get his cards back from the muck, does it?

I suspect he was seeking a bit of conflict resolution because clearly the situation has grown out of control.