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Author Topic: The War on Drugs  (Read 5375 times)
Swordpoker
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2009, 02:52:23 PM »

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/basicfax5.htm

BENOWITZ RATINGS

Substance   Withdrawal   Reinforcement   Tolerance   Dependence  Intoxication

Nicotine        3*                 4                         4           1            6

Heroin           2                     2                      2           2            2

Cocaine         3*                        1                   1           3            3

Alcohol          1                     3                       4           4            1

Caffeine         4                           5                  3           5            5

Marijuana        5                          6                  5           6            4

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bolt pp
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 02:54:52 PM »

Huh?Huh?Huh?? you sure

drugs rated by their overall danger according to a home office study. similar studies comissioned by eu came up with essentially the same conclusion i.e. ecstasy not very dangerous at all

1. Heroin
2. Cocaine
3. Barbituates
4. Street methadone
5. Alcohol
6. Ketamine
7. Benzodiazepines (e.g. Vallium)
8. Amphetamines
9. Tobacco
10. Buprenorphine
11. Cannabis
12. Solvents
13. 4-MTA
14. LSD
15. Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
16. Anabolic steroids
17. GHB
18. Ecstasy
19. Alkyl Nitrites (poppers)
20. Khat
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bolt pp
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 02:58:01 PM »


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Swordpoker
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 02:58:24 PM »

It all depends on how you measure addictiveness. The site I linked it also shows another completely different set of results.

Send in the hypnotists.
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Swordpoker
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 02:59:40 PM »


Is dependence the same as addictiveness?
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bolt pp
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 03:01:15 PM »


In this context i would say absolutely yes
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thetank
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 03:05:57 PM »

Disputes over quantifying the addictive nature of drugs is probably a mute point in the context of this discussion.

It's only one factor when assesing the overall harm of a drug. Gatso/bolts home office list is probably the most relevant.
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bolt pp
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 03:11:02 PM »

Disputes over quantifying the addictive nature of drugs is probably a mute point in the context of this discussion.


Of course it's not, my point is that the original reason for these proposals was to stop the organised crime element operating and more importantly the violence it produces, the point i think ive made is that the way the organised crime element has evolved the violence will be there regardless and aside from that crime related to drugs is born almost uniquely out of necessity, the potency of the drug wouldn't change if it were legalized would it and therefore the ground level crime that herion and crack addiction would still remain.
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G1BTW
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 03:27:01 PM »

Disputes over quantifying the addictive nature of drugs is probably a mute point in the context of this discussion.

It's only one factor when assesing the overall harm of a drug.

Ok, but also looks to me like you could draw a nice 45 degree best fit line passing through the origin on that graph > the more addictive it is, the more harm it does, pretty much.

This doesn't prove that addictiveness causes the harm but I'd guess there are underlying neurological causitive links in some cases. 
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Rod Paradise
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2009, 03:40:08 PM »


I don't buy into that graph at all - there was a study on Vietnam vets, all of whom had been herion users in Vietnam. 80% chucked it after a bout of 'jungle fever' - of the 20% still addicted the vast majority had underlying trauma, mainly from childhood that made the sheer forgetfullness of heroin so addictive. The report didn't agree with the government line & so was sidelined.

*%ages from memory.
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thetank
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2009, 04:01:44 PM »

Disputes over quantifying the addictive nature of drugs is probably a mute point in the context of this discussion.

It's only one factor when assesing the overall harm of a drug.

Ok, but also looks to me like you could draw a nice 45 degree best fit line passing through the origin on that graph > the more addictive it is, the more harm it does, pretty much.

This doesn't prove that addictiveness causes the harm but I'd guess there are underlying neurological causitive links in some cases.  

I don't think we can be drawing those sorts of conclusions.

They don't plug in an addicto-meter and take a reading, then plug in a harmo-meter and take another reading. The numbers are based on a whole host of observations and collated in an arbitary way (pulled out of their arse would be one way of putting it, but to be fair a lot of studies do a good job in trying to quantify the unquantifiable)

Of course addiction is a big factor in how dangerous a substance is (with exceptions obv) but the reason I said it was a mute point is that we're unlikely to get any kind of consenus as to the schemantics of the words addiction and dependance. Crack and Heroin are addictive and dangerous. If something else may or may not be more addictive it's a bit of an irrelevance is it not?

That is to say, is it not pretty evident that Crack and Heroin are the most dangerous and destructive drugs in terms of the affect they have on the users life as well as their family and neighbours. Why do we need charts and tables for this?
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bolt pp
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 04:03:55 PM »

Disputes over quantifying the addictive nature of drugs is probably a mute point in the context of this discussion.

It's only one factor when assesing the overall harm of a drug.

Ok, but also looks to me like you could draw a nice 45 degree best fit line passing through the origin on that graph > the more addictive it is, the more harm it does, pretty much.

This doesn't prove that addictiveness causes the harm but I'd guess there are underlying neurological causitive links in some cases. 

I don't think we can be drawing those sorts of conclusions.

They don't plug in an addicto-meter and take a reading, then plug in a harmo-meter and take another reading. The numbers are based on a whole host of observations and collated in an arbitary way (pulled out of their arse would be one way of putting it, but to be fair a lot of studies do a good job in trying to quantify the unquantifiable)

Of course addiction is a big factor in how dangerous a substance is (with exceptions obv) but the reason I said it was a mute point is that we're unlikely to get any kind of consenus as to the schemantics of the words addiction and dependance. Crack and Heroin are addictive and dangerous. If something else may or may not be more addictive it's a bit of an irrelevance is it not?

That is to say, is it not pretty evident that Crack and Heroin are the most dangerous and destructive drugs in terms of the affect they have on their own life as well as their their familys and neighbours. Why do we need charts and tables for this?

because without the charts and tables someone comes up with the idea to legalize all drugs and everyone just says: "yeah sure why not".

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byronkincaid
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 04:13:19 PM »

moot





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bolt pp
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2009, 04:22:45 PM »

drugs is bad innit.

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kinboshi
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« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 04:35:28 PM »

Perfume's worse:

http://is.gd/1UypI
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