What you reckon to my 3ball?

[AlexMartin]

Villain is a standard tag, bit more on the tight side. Views me as pretty tight too i think. Other villain Prank is an insane fish, playing about 42/25 and exceptionally spewy. On the flop i just want to iso the fish in position and i think i can prolly get OR to pass most op's by the turn/river. Given he calls turn though, is banging this river smart or stupid?


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 560652437 *****
NL $2.50/$5 Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 10, 18:37:17 GMT 2009
Table Nitrogen 181 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of active players : 5
Seat 1: touten ( $721.52 )
Seat 2: Slaven11 ( $446.10 )
Seat 3: MrGerloch ( $525 )
Seat 4: PrAnk87 ( $1,154.59 )
Seat 5: JammyJenny ( $1,654.54 )
Seat 6: banker11 ( $490.76 )
PrAnk87 posts small blind [$2.50]
JammyJenny posts big blind [$5]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JammyJenny [ , ]
touten folds
Slaven11 folds
MrGerloch raises to [$15]
PrAnk87 calls [$12.50]
JammyJenny calls [$10]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
PrAnk87 checks
JammyJenny checks
MrGerloch bets [$31]
PrAnk87 calls [$31]
JammyJenny raises to [$80]
MrGerloch calls [$49]
PrAnk87 folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
JammyJenny bets [$145]
MrGerloch calls [$145]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
JammyJenny bets [$350]

[Drain Alien]

Villain is a standard tag, bit more on the tight side. Views me as pretty tight too i think. Other villain Prank is an insane fish, playing about 42/25 and exceptionally spewy. On the flop i just want to iso the fish in position and i think i can prolly get OR to pass most op's by the turn/river. Given he calls turn though, is banging this river smart or stupid?


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 560652437 *****
NL $2.50/$5 Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 10, 18:37:17 GMT 2009
Table Nitrogen 181 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of active players : 5
Seat 1: touten ( $721.52 )
Seat 2: Slaven11 ( $446.10 )
Seat 3: MrGerloch ( $525 )
Seat 4: PrAnk87 ( $1,154.59 )
Seat 5: JammyJenny ( $1,654.54 )
Seat 6: banker11 ( $490.76 )
PrAnk87 posts small blind [$2.50]
JammyJenny posts big blind [$5]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JammyJenny [ , ]
touten folds
Slaven11 folds
MrGerloch raises to [$15]
PrAnk87 calls [$12.50]
JammyJenny calls [$10]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
PrAnk87 checks
JammyJenny checks
MrGerloch bets [$31]
PrAnk87 calls [$31]
JammyJenny raises to [$80]
MrGerloch calls [$49]
PrAnk87 folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
JammyJenny bets [$145]
MrGerloch calls [$145]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
JammyJenny bets [$350]

LMAO

[GreekStein]

On the flop why do you raise so small Alex?

[AlexMartin]

On the flop why do you raise so small Alex?

haha, i discussed this with villain post hand. I wanted to take initiative and buy position to get hu v the fish for my no.1 obo, im not terribly interested in getting it in i just want to inflate the pot plus i keep some flexibility for later streets should i need to do something funky (like 3ball bluff).

[titaniumbean]

I read the hand and thought what gkstein thought and read your reply so assumed I had misread stack sizes pre and that you were deep with the reg not the fish.

Surely with our equity we want to make the pot big on the flop, pot would be about 170 and we make it 81?

If we make it ~125 and reg calls then fish will fold considering he folded for 40 more 3 way. Then we just jam turn ~360 into 310.

If the fish calls your smaller raise and we are then stacking off if we make our hand surely do we not want to make it more considering we have tp+fd rather than just a draw.

Did you think about leading the flop into the pfr after the fish checked, that would allow you to b3b against the reg for 100bb

OR

lead and have the pfr fold and the fish hu oop w/v good equity deep. even if he folds if he's playing so spewy giving him any option in that situation is good.

OR

lead and the pfr calls and the fish overcalls, that could get interesting.

OR

lead and have pfr raise, fish cold call and we can 3ball squeeze and get the most money in now when our equity is best. It seems more like from what you were saying that you would rather bluff the loose/spewy fish off it later? This surely isn't the hand to be looking to that with?

edit

oh and in answer to the post lol

At first I was like no no I dont like it might even check turn. Villains hand looks alot like 99/AJcc/T9 kinda things.
I think it depends what villain is going to think of your flop c/r size given dynamics/stack sizes. Would you raise this size with a set? If not then I think you prob get snapped off but if he can put stronger hands in your range then 3 balling cant be bad on that river given that he hasn't raised us yet and it's HU w/ fish out of the pot and the board is draw heavy.

[AlexMartin]

interesting thoughts, thanks for the reply. tbh i dont really use donkbets because they are very hard to balance and utilise well. not to say they cant be immensely useful, but i havent really experimented with them enough to know. i think in hindsight that i should  have made the cr slightly bigger. Pretty sure i rep the sets, 78, combos and the nfd fairly well on the flop, the turn fits with my overall range pretty well so i figure its ok. When he just calls its a really odd line for him and i literally have no idea to his range but doubt the 8 has enough showdown value to check.

[titaniumbean]

Yeah our 8 is beating all the hands that fold out with a bet, though we could get 99 to fold now I guess? I dunno I just dont know how to see the flop size raise. I think bigger is better with this hand esp with the fish deep. Did you think about checking the turn? I think leading against 'good' players is imperative and against weaker players it can be a good strategy which you dont need to balance.

[keilan303]

Its playing hands like this at small stakes that are killing my roll (I read too much of your articles ) but I like the play....

Would he ever play a this tricky? (in which case I think its a snap for him) Pocket nines metioned above sounds about right aswell....would be a tough call.... if you had the set, wouldn't you check raise the river since a straight seems unlikely and the flush missed;eg. if he was floating the turn I'd let him fire at the river... or is he checking behind every time? (I suck at cash so Im not sure what the thinking would be, just wondering whether they'd be wondering the same thing so could figure to be ahead because you had to bet the river) guess it depends if youve shown down any monsters and extracted good value on the river.....is this a factor in getting river bets to fly? I think flop raise is ok given that it looks like it is serving only to juice the pot so when you fire the turn villains flat suggests he might think he's relegated to a draw....he could be thinking "sigh.call.reload" on the river though....just my fishy .....did it get through?