Hand Range

[Blatch]

I, however, made a genuine raise for info

Pretty sure you shouldn't do this.

I didnt like it but I dont see what else I can do???  Options welcome

a) Open fold top pair
b) Call and then not sure what to do on turn - just keep calling or fold to any bet - tad spewy

Atleast this way ive found out im miles behind

[George2Loose]

I, however, made a genuine raise for info

Pretty sure you shouldn't do this.

Raising for info against a capable is bad. If you're not gonna call a shove you should flat

[MANTIS01]

The raise puts in around 1/3 of my stack and with the pre flop action he cant surely expect me to be folding any kind of hand

You are the ss at the table and have just put about 10% of your stack in by raising, so there's no doubt this is a crucial pot for you. If you had K-Q on this rainbow K-high flop would you put in around 1/3 of your stack raising villain's lead? Cos if you did that surely villain can't expect you to be folding such a hand. And that's prob not the sort of thought process you would want your aggressive oppo going through when you're looking for a strat that gets his chips in. Maybe he thinks you wouldn't play the hand this way if you were in fact strong. If your chipped oppo thinks this way he could ship relatively wide. It isn't necessarily what I would think but it's definitely possible. I think you over complicate this hand & I definitely play this out.

[GreekStein]

I, however, made a genuine raise for info

Pretty sure you shouldn't do this.

I didnt like it but I dont see what else I can do???  Options welcome

a) Open fold top pair
b) Call and then not sure what to do on turn - just keep calling or fold to any bet - tad spewy

Atleast this way ive found out im miles behind

I'll have to reread OP cos I can't even remember the hand but I'm in a cba mood.

How can you be sure you're miles behind? He could easily decide to shove with a worse king or JQ. He could be spazzing out with AQ/AJ thinking you can't call.

[outragous76]

Blatch - i can do nothing but respect your game - but if you get away with saying 'raise for info' this thread has to go in the hall of fame


now where was I, ..............

I appreiate all of your reasoning, but i think you have to go with your hand here. You are short handed, short stacked, I assume not bothered about laddering (and you didnt mention any shorties). You raise KQ  - you hit top pair and want to fold? - It just doesnt make any sense.

He isnt flatting with AK here - too susceptible - so if he is being tricky he has AA or KK. You gotta be looking to rule out KK when the 'case' K hits.

So now narrowing his range - AA - possible, QJ - very possible - I wouldnt rule out the KJ KQ  KT hands as quickly as you did this late in a tourney. He could obv have the sets.

Given that you can chalk up KT TT   66 as coolers  (prob 3 bets TT pre) - i think you gotta go with your hand.  I dont know how well the villain knows you, but he might think that 15bb's is fold equity (i dont - but this iis live).

Im getting em in with your hand here

[Blatch]

I, however, made a genuine raise for info

Pretty sure you shouldn't do this.

I didnt like it but I dont see what else I can do???  Options welcome

a) Open fold top pair
b) Call and then not sure what to do on turn - just keep calling or fold to any bet - tad spewy

Atleast this way ive found out im miles behind

I'll have to reread OP cos I can't even remember the hand but I'm in a cba mood.

How can you be sure you're miles behind? He could easily decide to shove with a worse king or JQ. He could be spazzing out with AQ/AJ thinking you can't call.

Dont think he flats pre OOP with a worse K or AQ AJ even

Remember he is chip leader, OOP and playing someone with only around 23 BB or so.

[George2Loose]

Has he told you what he had?

[Blatch]

Blatch - i can do nothing but respect your game - but if you get away with saying 'raise for info' this thread has to go in the hall of fame


now where was I, ..............

I appreiate all of your reasoning, but i think you have to go with your hand here. You are short handed, short stacked, I assume not bothered about laddering (and you didnt mention any shorties). You raise KQ  - you hit top pair and want to fold? - It just doesnt make any sense.

He isnt flatting with AK here - too susceptible - so if he is being tricky he has AA or KK. You gotta be looking to rule out KK when the 'case' K hits.

So now narrowing his range - AA - possible, QJ - very possible - I wouldnt rule out the KJ KQ  KT hands as quickly as you did this late in a tourney. He could obv have the sets.

Given that you can chalk up KT TT   66 as coolers  (prob 3 bets TT pre) - i think you gotta go with your hand.  I dont know how well the villain knows you, but he might think that 15bb's is fold equity (i dont - but this iis live).

Im getting em in with your hand here

So were basically saying I have top pair and willing to go broke here?

Im trying to go past this stage as although im still short stacked id rather get in it when im good.  Personally I dont see a hand beating here, with the knowledge I have on the player and the situation I dont see a better option.  I have to rule out the fold but I see the advantages on flatting here.  However I dont like playing a pot or making a call without having a plan for the turn.

If I flat the flop I think Chris would lead out on the turn.  Do I then open fold?  or do I continuing to hope im ahead and that he will check the river?

By raising on the flop I then open myself up for winning by him folding but if he shoves I have enough to fold and still have enough to make someone fold in future hands.

I think I would rather be open shoving 12 blinds deep after I have raise / folded then shoving here when I think im ahead of about a 10% of his range to win a 170k pot.

[Blatch]

Has he told you what he had?

He has yes, but Trickett has also said what he put Chris on at the time

[GreekStein]

My personal view is that 20 bigs deep with top pair Q kicker when we were the aggressors pre we shouldn't be making a habit of hero folding against a chipped up aggro opponent.

In his shoes I'm leading with a set loads because I know I can get your stack in a lot when you've connected (and you connect with this board in some way often) but I just don't think we should be raise/folding. (If I'm raising I'm calling an all in).

In my eyes you have 2 options - 1) flat and re-evaluate the turn.  2) Raise and get it in.

Your raise size also looks like you have fold equity.

Knowing you my guess would be he had bottom set and you wanna show us you're a geeenius

[George2Loose]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

He could even take this line with middle pair if he's aggro enough. Surely some of the range he peels with, you're beating here.

However his line is very strong and probably does lean toward AA, bottom set. I just think flat/fold or flat/all in are better lines.

[George2Loose]

One more thing to think about- your line could look like total air/raise for info. Certainly did when we were watching online

[salfi]

what is your line if u flop kkk or 10 10 10  or qj? ? ?        would u raise these on the flop ?

[MC]

I think raise/folding is the worse line you can take. Flatting and folding the turn is better and much less spewy.

^^I agree with this dude. Obviously open folding isn't an option, but flatting is better than raise/folding.

[outragous76]

why were you so convinced he was flatting with AA rather than any other hand?