What do you do here?

[jezza777]

Ok I've been thinking about this hand a lot and I am not sure about any of it.

It was the Luton £200 on Monday night. blinds were 100-200 , we all have around the 5000 mark in chips. I am not 100% sure about the action but I think it went something like this.....

Sherrif raises to 600 from early to mid pos. I have  As and flat call , RED flat calls as does player x.

Flop    RED 1st to act bets out 1500 player x calls , Sherrif calls .

What do you do?

[ACE2M]

Scratch your head.

 I hate these.

[Phil]

I honestly don't know the answer to this question. This is one of those where your read on each player is vital I guess. But even then, I still wouldn't know what to do.

[ACE2M]

Someone may well have the same hand but be free rolloing the flush. Will a set fold? To scary, on line i'm probably all in, live with decent players i really don't know.

[ACE2M]

If no one has any ideas at least tell us what happened Jezza.

[jezza777]

well... I fold,

The turn comes a brick  (i think) and RED moves all in , player x folds and sherrif calls..



RED     V   Sherriff     


River blank and RED rakes a monster pot. ( I cry )

[ACE2M]

I thought one had the with a Q. And i put red on a set. Would much rather be first to act on that flop.

[TightEnd]

i heard about this one on the night 

Re raise pre flop Jezza and Red folds and away you go (says someone who on the same night flat called a raise with AK and got into trouble!!)l

Hindsight's a wonderful thing!

[Sheriff Fatman]

Unsurprisingly I remember this hand very well!  I made several debatable plays in this hand (for various reasons) so I might as well set it out in full....

Blinds are 50/100, action is as follows

UTG raises to 400.  He's clearly got something but he's also bet on the end with nothing a few times so I decided to see what develops with and call from mid-position.  Jezza is next to act and calls.  RED completes from the BB.  4 players, pot 1,700.

Flop

RED bets 1,500.  UTG thinks for a bit and then flat calls.  This throws me completely.  Instead of now pushing as I'd originally intended to do I now convince myself that UTG has AK and is waiting to see for a non-diamond turn before pushing.  As a result I make the worst play of 3 options available and call, also wanting to see what the turn brings.  Jezza folds.  3 players, pot 6,200.

Turn, something raggy like the .

RED pushes for something like 3,500 more.  UTG now goes into the tank and then folds.  This surprises me as, based on my read, I expect a push here.  Now I'm the last to act.  I think, decide to take a chance on a big pot early and call for the 3,200 or so I have left.  River is a blank, RED gets a massive pot and I go home to many puzzled looks from the table.

By no means my best ever play, and certainly not one from the text book!  However, for me the worst decision is not pushing on the flop, rather than the call on the turn.  However, in both cases I allowed specific bits of information about the players concerned to affect my decision.  The first is convincing myself I'm behind to AK and then calling.  Regardless of this I still have to either push or fold here.  Folding gets me out of a hand I'm behind on, pushing puts the pressure back on everyone else.  Calling does neither and leaves me with a horrible decision on the turn if I miss.

The turn option is a little different.  If UTG calls or pushes after RED bets it confirms my read and I get away from the hand.  When he folds, I'm now facing a slightly different decision.  I'm not entirely sure what RED is holding anymore.  I've already ruled him out of AK as I think he would have re-raised from the BB there pre-flop (this may be a bad read but its what went through my mind at the time).  I now start to think whether my top pair is giving me any extra outs to the flush draw I'm trying to hit.

I'm fairly sure that top pair isn't winning at this point, but I can't rule it out entirely.  I'm now considering whether RED is betting a pair or two pair with a straight draw or flush draw.  I don't think he's made a flush already as the high flush cards are out, and from what I've seen of RED I'd pretty much ruled out him of completing with two low diamonds in his hand (again probably a bad read as something like 7d6d or 8d9d would make sense here).   However, hands like KQ or KJ with the make a little sense here with regard to his pre-flop play.  He's certainly playing the hand strongly if that's the case but with the size of the pot after the flop then maybe its worth him taking a shot at getting everyone else out with another bet.  If so the only one available to him is to push.

I therefore decide to take a shot, expecting to need to improve on the river.  I actually said "Let's Gamble" as I made the call to try and make it obvious that this wasn't my typical play.  The other factor in my mind at this point is that I've entered all the events this week whilst still planning to go to work every day.  I'm therefore not too averse to an early exit from this comp as it partly solves the issue of when I'm actually planning to get some sleep!  I'm either out here or holding a lot of chips early and this is ultimately what got me to make the call.

As it turned out RED had made the King high straight with , so I potentially had the Kings as extra outs on the face of it.  However I think UTG said he folded KK and if Jezza had AK then that actually didn't leave me any Kings to hit.

Like I said, by no means my greatest ever play and one which I ultimately read too much into, allowing me to make a terrible play on the flop.  For the reasons stated above I don't mind the turn call so much, although I can easily understand how others would hate it.  9 times out of 10 I get away from the hand here too but an early exit was not such a bad option for me this time around!

Sheriff

[TightEnd]

Unsurprisingly I remember this hand very well!  I made several debatable plays in this hand (for various reasons) so I might as well set it out in full....

Blinds are 50/100, action is as follows

UTG raises to 400.  He's clearly got something but he's also bet on the end with nothing a few times so I decided to see what develops with and call from mid-position.  Jezza is next to act and calls.  RED completes from the BB.  4 players, pot 1,700.

Flop

RED bets 1,500.  UTG thinks for a bit and then flat calls.  This throws me completely.  Instead of now pushing as I'd originally intended to do I now convince myself that UTG has AK and is waiting to see for a non-diamond turn before pushing.  As a result I make the worst play of 3 options available and call, also wanting to see what the turn brings.  Jezza folds.  3 players, pot 6,200.

Turn, something raggy like the .

RED pushes for something like 3,500 more.  UTG now goes into the tank and then folds.  This surprises me as, based on my read, I expect a push here.  Now I'm the last to act.  I think, decide to take a chance on a big pot early and call for the 3,200 or so I have left.  River is a blank, RED gets a massive pot and I go home to many puzzled looks from the table.

By no means my best ever play, and certainly not one from the text book!  However, for me the worst decision is not pushing on the flop, rather than the call on the turn.  However, in both cases I allowed specific bits of information about the players concerned to affect my decision.  The first is convincing myself I'm behind to AK and then calling.  Regardless of this I still have to either push or fold here.  Folding gets me out of a hand I'm behind on, pushing puts the pressure back on everyone else.  Calling does neither and leaves me with a horrible decision on the turn if I miss.

The turn option is a little different.  If UTG calls or pushes after RED bets it confirms my read and I get away from the hand.  When he folds, I'm now facing a slightly different decision.  I'm not entirely sure what RED is holding anymore.  I've already ruled him out of AK as I think he would have re-raised from the BB there pre-flop (this may be a bad read but its what went through my mind at the time).  I now start to think whether my top pair is giving me any extra outs to the flush draw I'm trying to hit.

I'm fairly sure that top pair isn't winning at this point, but I can't rule it out entirely.  I'm now considering whether RED is betting a pair or two pair with a straight draw or flush draw.  I don't think he's made a flush already as the high flush cards are out, and from what I've seen of RED I'd pretty much ruled out him of completing with two low diamonds in his hand (again probably a bad read as something like 7d6d or 8d9d would make sense here).   However, hands like KQ or KJ with the make a little sense here with regard to his pre-flop play.  He's certainly playing the hand strongly if that's the case but with the size of the pot after the flop then maybe its worth him taking a shot at getting everyone else out with another bet.  If so the only one available to him is to push.

I therefore decide to take a shot, expecting to need to improve on the river.  I actually said "Let's Gamble" as I made the call to try and make it obvious that this wasn't my typical play.  The other factor in my mind at this point is that I've entered all the events this week whilst still planning to go to work every day.  I'm therefore not too averse to an early exit from this comp as it partly solves the issue of when I'm actually planning to get some sleep!  I'm either out here or holding a lot of chips early and this is ultimately what got me to make the call.

As it turned out RED had made the King high straight with , so I potentially had the Kings as extra outs on the face of it.  However I think UTG said he folded KK and if Jezza had AK then that actually didn't leave me any Kings to hit.

Like I said, by no means my greatest ever play and one which I ultimately read too much into, allowing me to make a terrible play on the flop.  For the reasons stated above I don't mind the turn call so much, although I can easily understand how others would hate it.  9 times out of 10 I get away from the hand here too but an early exit was not such a bad option for me this time around!

Sheriff

 

muppet!!

[Highstack]

Although you are likely to be in front, the strength of bet means that you can not call. You certainly don't want to call as likely if you are behind, you will be asked for the remainder of your stack on the turn. Pushing is not an option because you will get called if you are behind and be out.

Once again, you can not win the tournament here but you can lose it. Easy pass for me.

[Dingdell]

Once again, you can not win the tournament here but you can lose it. Easy pass for me.

brilliant quote - this is where I make my mistakes - this should be the poker mantra for blonde - a bit lengthy but good!

[Dingdell]

Once again, you can not win the tournament here but you can lose it. Easy pass for me.

Sorry - the quote is not " this is where I make my mistakes" but "Once again, you can not win the tournament here but you can lose it" in case my last post confused things!Clear now?!

[RED-DOG]

I made the pre flop call because it was good value, 300 into a 1400 pot, I'm UTG so if I don't hit it big time, I'm gone

as it turned out, being UTG turned into an advantage after the flop, I've hit my straight but I could be in a world of hurt, I have to try to find out where I am so I make a good solid bet of 1500, if someone else had bet before me I would have had to fold

My thinking here is if someone holds AK or a flush other than the nut flush, they have to come over the top and I can get out

When I get two flat calls, I believe my hand is good, until then I was just looking for a reason to put it down, now I think I am against a set perhaps and almost certanly the nut flush draw

Having decided that I am ahead at this point, I really have no choice but to push my chips in

If Jessa had re raised pre flop with the AK, or Sheriff had pushed all in post flop I would have been forced to fold

My decisions were easier than yours in this hand because I got to act first

[Highstack]

I totally agree with your post RED, although that is the exact reason that I don't play K9 from early position now in any raised pot. Whether by me or someone else I have seen it run into AK too many times.

It usually seems to win a small pot or lose a big one. Your information bet @ 1500 represents 30% of your stack. That is just too much to risk at this stage imo. sure you took it down this time and part of what saved you was the three cards to a flush. Suppose that there were only two to a flush, you would now find it difficult to lay and could easily have done your tournament right there. Its only a marginal decision I know, but I am trying to eradicate as many of these as possible from my game.