Do the hands matter?

[gatso]

can you lot watch the words you use please. what if someone google 'alea stabbing'?

[titaniumbean]

can you lot watch the words you use please. what if someone google '**** stabbing'?

[EvilPie]

I don't quite get why we're "pot committed" on any flop?

Yes we've put £45 in which is 1/4 of our stack but we've got £135 left.

Yes we're committed against Vargas but why against the other 2?

[BulldozerD]

I don't quite get why we're "pot committed" on any flop?

Yes we've put £45 in which is 1/4 of our stack but we've got £135 left.

Yes we're committed against Vargas but why against the other 2?

pot is £180+ and he has £87 back according to OP so has less than half PSB left?

IMO if you are 3betting to this amount pre your plan is going to be shove a high % of flops whether 1 or more callers, unless you flop quads or something

[EvilPie]

I don't quite get why we're "pot committed" on any flop?

Yes we've put £45 in which is 1/4 of our stack but we've got £135 left.

Yes we're committed against Vargas but why against the other 2?

pot is £180+ and he has £87 back according to OP so has less than half PSB left?

IMO if you are 3betting to this amount pre your plan is going to be shove a high % of flops whether 1 or more callers, unless you flop quads or something

Sorry my bad. Mis read.

He says he's looking to take it down pre or isolate Vargas. Might as well shove pre then given the dynamics of the table.

If Vargas is calling £45 he's probably calling £132. To call £45 with a marginal hand he needs another caller or 2 and then our hand is struggling in a 4 way pot.

If somebody's going to wake up with a slow played monster he's committed pre now anyway.

[Longy]

I don't quite get why we're "pot committed" on any flop?

Yes we've put £45 in which is 1/4 of our stack but we've got £135 left.

Yes we're committed against Vargas but why against the other 2?

pot is £180+ and he has £87 back according to OP so has less than half PSB left?

IMO if you are 3betting to this amount pre your plan is going to be shove a high % of flops whether 1 or more callers, unless you flop quads or something

Sorry my bad. Mis read.

He says he's looking to take it down pre or isolate Vargas. Might as well shove pre then given the dynamics of the table.

If Vargas is calling £45 he's probably calling £132. To call £45 with a marginal hand he needs another caller or 2 and then our hand is struggling in a 4 way pot.

If somebody's going to wake up with a slow played monster he's committed pre now anyway.

Ugh raising to £45 is a lot better than shoving, Vargas and other weak player will see the two raises as very different things. They don't think that calling the extra £40 is truly awful with marginal hands and will play fit or fold with or without the correct odds. Whereas if you shove they are just straight up gambling and even they realise they are doing this with the weakest hand. Ok Vargas might call anyway cos he is a loony but you are losing value long term by not letting the donks make mistakes.

[EvilPie]

I don't quite get why we're "pot committed" on any flop?

Yes we've put £45 in which is 1/4 of our stack but we've got £135 left.

Yes we're committed against Vargas but why against the other 2?

pot is £180+ and he has £87 back according to OP so has less than half PSB left?

IMO if you are 3betting to this amount pre your plan is going to be shove a high % of flops whether 1 or more callers, unless you flop quads or something

Sorry my bad. Mis read.

He says he's looking to take it down pre or isolate Vargas. Might as well shove pre then given the dynamics of the table.

If Vargas is calling £45 he's probably calling £132. To call £45 with a marginal hand he needs another caller or 2 and then our hand is struggling in a 4 way pot.

If somebody's going to wake up with a slow played monster he's committed pre now anyway.

Ugh raising to £45 is a lot better than shoving, Vargas and other weak player will see the two raises as very different things. They don't think that calling the extra £40 is truly awful with marginal hands and will play fit or fold with or without the correct odds. Whereas if you shove they are just straight up gambling and even they realise they are doing this with the weakest hand. Ok Vargas might call anyway cos he is a loony but you are losing value long term by not letting the donks make mistakes.

Don't get me wrong I'm never shoving here.

What I'm saying is that to achieve op's objective of isolating Vargas or taking the pot down you might as well shove.

If you raise you need to make it an amount that if it doesn't isolate our target we are not committed.

If we make it £25 we get exactly the same action and have more chance of bringing Vargas along HU if we don't get the 2 other callers. We are also not committed if we get multiway.

I just hate the £45 raise.

[titaniumbean]

if we are re-raising to 45 we have a hand. when we have a hand we want to make it big and shove 100% of flops. ez game.

you cant isolate or take it down pre in a vargas game that's just retarded thinking.

also with any pretty good hand I love the pf raise size

[EvilPie]

if we are re-raising to 45 we have a hand. when we have a hand we want to make it big and shove 100% of flops. ez game.

you cant isolate or take it down pre in a vargas game that's just retarded thinking.

also with any pretty good hand I love the pf raise size

Why can't you isolate?

Unless there's 2 Vargas's at the table then assuming you can't isolate is ridic.

[titaniumbean]

You can isolate him but no one else.

It depends on your seat relative to him. He's a betting machine use that to create lots of dead monies.

[EvilPie]

You can isolate him but no one else.

It depends on your seat relative to him. He's a betting machine use that to create lots of dead monies.

But isn't that what we want? To isolate him?

There was already dead money in the pot. Once we've been called in 3 spots for a £45 raise there isn't really any more dead money bacause no body's deep enough to isolate for you. Everybody's going to going all in.

To use Vargas for isolation purposes you need to be playing a lot less deep than him and the other players in the pot. If everyone's similar stacks you're going to end up drawn in to a gambling multiway big pot. This is great if we win it but I assume we're looking to make easy money here not money we have to sweat for?

[GreekStein]

With KK i preferably want the whole table to call pre.

[titaniumbean]

 

You can isolate him but no one else.

It depends on your seat relative to him. He's a betting machine use that to create lots of dead monies.

But isn't that what we want? To isolate him?

There was already dead money in the pot. Once we've been called in 3 spots for a £45 raise there isn't really any more dead money bacause no body's deep enough to isolate for you. Everybody's going to going all in.

To use Vargas for isolation purposes you need to be playing a lot less deep than him and the other players in the pot. If everyone's similar stacks you're going to end up drawn in to a gambling multiway big pot. This is great if we win it but I assume we're looking to make easy money here not money we have to sweat for?

Meh, I was talking in general matt. With KK in the SB 45 is perfect. We got multiple calls lol

in general you want to use the dynamic he creates relative to your position. so sitting on his right really isn't that bad.

When the game is like this it's like printing money if you don't play ridiculously tight. You can limp reraise squeeze so happily trapping everyone willing to cawl his pf raise this time because he does it ever time etc. He will also call you light so you just have to widen your value range. he will fold to people who are too tight some of the time, if you give any action he just wont fold lol.

[EvilPie]

With KK i preferably want the whole table to call pre.

Dat's cus you is a mad gambler innit.......

[titaniumbean]

With KK i preferably want the whole table to call pre.

Dat's cus you is a mad gambler innit.......

why is kk really gambling


you dont sit in a game with vargas to not get brilliant equity opportunities.

EMBRACE THE VARIANCE