live 1-2 hand in a straddled pot

[julian]

lively 1-2 at dtd from a couple of weeks back, i'm BB, mitch is UTG & straddles.
i'm sitting on about 340, mitch has me well covered.
a couple of us make up the straddle & mitch pops it to 21 i think.
i have -7d & call along with 1 other; out of position is this pretty spewy, good occasionally or just plain bad?
anyways, we all check the K,Q,6d flop.
turn was the , i led for 30 & mitch raised another 90 i think.
i have 290ish left in my stack, what's the best play?

[Cf]

Making up the straddle is fine here.

I'd fold to the 21 raise though. Don't mind playing this sort of hand deep occasionally but I don't think it's a good idea to be doing it OOP.

Betting the turn is fine, but I fold to the raise. I'm not convinced that a shove will get through, and if you just call then you're not getting the odds on your flush draw. 90 into 210 isn't great. It's fine if you know you'll get paid on the river if you hit it, but I think bet/calling raise on turn and shipping the river when the flush hits is a bit obvious - though of course this could well help get it paid off by a thinking player

[titaniumbean]

3 ball all in.

I think that calling pre with <=1 other caller is prob bad. I'd rather LRR pre than defend I think.

As it is, Mitch has a wide-ish range for raising pre, but to then check back the flop/raise turn it gets super narrow. Looks like a bluff or a picked up draw or KK/QQ which slow played the flop (was the other caller oop too?)

[Cf]

3 ball all in.

I think that calling pre with <=1 other caller is prob bad. I'd rather LRR pre than defend I think.

As it is, Mitch has a wide-ish range for raising pre, but to then check back the flop/raise turn it gets super narrow. Looks like a bluff or a picked up draw or KK/QQ which slow played the flop (was the other caller oop too?)

Is this not a reason to fold? Ok, a bluff folds to the all in but I doubt the monster or draw fold, and we're behind both. And if he has got some sort of better flush draw then we're really in trouble. And if he's got the monster then I don't like having my stack in as a 4-1 dog.

[titaniumbean]

3 ball all in.

I think that calling pre with <=1 other caller is prob bad. I'd rather LRR pre than defend I think.

As it is, Mitch has a wide-ish range for raising pre, but to then check back the flop/raise turn it gets super narrow. Looks like a bluff or a picked up draw or KK/QQ which slow played the flop (was the other caller oop too?)

Is this not a reason to fold? Ok, a bluff folds to the all in but I doubt the monster or draw fold, and we're behind both. And if he has got some sort of better flush draw then we're really in trouble. And if he's got the monster then I don't like having my stack in as a 4-1 dog.

The monster never folds, we have outs though.
I dont think he ever has like JTdd, so I dont see him calling us with a dominated draw really.

What i'd be kinda afraid of is like AQ/QJ going for really thin value knowing he reps very little.

I think he'll fold a good proportion of the time tbh. I'd be more worried if both callers to the pfr were oop because it gives mitch more flexibility to check some stronger hands on the flop. I think i'd rather shove than call and shove when we hit or c/f if we miss. I don't think he'll turn up with 55 or 66 considering he raised pre. He could have KQ I guess. meh Mitch said in another thread that they've played quite a few pots and were playing back a good amount so who knows.

[poonjoe]

i have -7d & call along with 1 other; out of position is this pretty spewy, good occasionally or just plain bad?

Are you wondering 'good occasionally' coz you need to balance yr range against a thinking opponent that you regularly play against?

If so how often would you need to make this 'bad' call? 

People don't often talk about their decisions in terms of probability distributions, e.g. 'I would call the raise here with 4d7d 20% of the time, fold 75% of the time and raise 5% of the time'.

Is it important to be thinking like this, and if so how do we implement the balancing at the table?

[BigCityBanker]

Id prefer going for a c/r on turn rather than a lead. If you do want to lead make it bigger. Doubt he resists the temptation to bet when it gets to him the 2nd time.

whoever this mitch guy is I hate his line but i bet he can still beat 7 high

[Mitch]

I think your just in such a tough spot here. Its difficult when u call a raise pre with this hand not to go with it when u have got this board.

The only problem is its back to the old u know that i know thing when u shove. Because my hand does look strong, i know the chance of u doing it with a marginal made hand such as JQ or K10 is so small, it weights your range so much more towards draws as i think your genrally raising yourself with all on the AQ/AK/KQ hands pre and re-popping me with KK/QQ if you limped it to begin with after my original raise had also picked up the caller on the button.

I think it just depends how loose your opponent has been playing and if theyve been making this sort of play regularly etc. Theres an argument for either play.

[Mitch]

Id prefer going for a c/r on turn rather than a lead. If you do want to lead make it bigger. Doubt he resists the temptation to bet when it gets to him the 2nd time.

whoever this mitch guy is I hate his line but i bet he can still beat 7 high

How can u assess how ive played the hand if you dont even know what ive got!?

[titaniumbean]

everyone knows your a fish mitch. obv!

How wide/how often do you really think you can be in a position to actually raise this turn and call it?

[Mitch]

everyone knows your a fish mitch. obv!

How wide/how often do you really think you can be in a position to actually raise this turn and call it?

A decent amount of the time, especially with an aggro player also involved in the hand on the button. Cant be just leading EVERY flop when ur the pre flop raiser. Mix it up ftw!

Obviously if im in a hand with u im value betting your ass off on evey street with 27th pair whilst also checking the odd royal flush to you on the river to let u hang yourself hahahaha nice hand sir.

[BigCityBanker]

How can u assess how ive played the hand if you dont even know what ive got!?

im dont really care what you have got tbh.

[titaniumbean]

everyone knows your a fish mitch. obv!

How wide/how often do you really think you can be in a position to actually raise this turn and call it?

A decent amount of the time, especially with an aggro player also involved in the hand on the button. Cant be just leading EVERY flop when ur the pre flop raiser. Mix it up ftw!

Obviously if im in a hand with u im value betting your ass off on evey street with 27th pair whilst also checking the odd royal flush to you on the river to let u hang yourself hahahaha nice hand sir.

haha so the other caller is aggro and otb?

cos that def affects your checking back range.

in a way it's kinda hard for you to have air because you know it looks like nothing. whenever I get in these spots I fold thinking they could never be bluffing then you show me a bluff lol


Royal flush checkaments

[Mitch]

Royal flush checkaments

If i only i could have slowrolled you aswell, my life would have been complete!

[Mitch]

How can u assess how ive played the hand if you dont even know what ive got!?

im dont really care what you have got tbh.

ok. wp.