Triple Ruling

[pokermuppet]

I saw these 3 rulings all occur last night. Opinions on each please.

1/ Action is on the turn HU.  Player 1 bets 1100. Player 2 puts 2 x 1000 chips in the middle and says nothing.

is this a call or a raise?




2/  blinds are 200/400  player opens to 1600, 1 call and short stack pushes allin for 2900

Is this an under raise or is the betting reopened?




3/ Guy playing his 1st ever tourny makes it 6000 utg. Matey round the back shoves in for more, noob not realising its a raise turns his hand over.

Is his hand dead? does he have the option to call the raise? should he serve a penalty (not the 1st time he had exposed his cards at the wrong time)

[kukushkin88]

1. It should be deemed a call.

2. Betting is reopened.

3. He is allowed to call.

[Ironside]

1. It should be deemed a call.

2. Betting is reopened.

3. He is allowed to call.

+1

[marcin123]

1... It should be only a call,,, however some card rooms will class this as a raise as it is over 50% of a raise... I remember this happening to me at Manchester G,,, which to be honest is stupid seeing as I only had 3 visible chips at the time (2 1000 chips and a 5000 chip,,, the bet being 1200 when i threw the chips in without saying anything they forced me to raise LOL)... your best of signalling your intentions by saying CALL...

2... Obviously reopened... 400 with 1200 with 1300

3... Should be allowed to call

[Cf]

I saw these 3 rulings all occur last night. Opinions on each please.

1/ Action is on the turn HU.  Player 1 bets 1100. Player 2 puts 2 x 1000 chips in the middle and says nothing.

is this a call or a raise?

It's a call. There's a new rule out that clarifies this scenario. The basic idea is if someone puts 2 chips out and removal of one of them makes less than the bet it's a call. Or something. Look up new TDA rules if you actually want to see this one.

2/  blinds are 200/400  player opens to 1600, 1 call and short stack pushes allin for 2900

Is this an under raise or is the betting reopened?

400->1600 is a raise of 1200. 1600->2900 is a raise of 1300 and is thus a valid raise Betting is reopened.

3/ Guy playing his 1st ever tourny makes it 6000 utg. Matey round the back shoves in for more, noob not realising its a raise turns his hand over.

Is his hand dead? does he have the option to call the raise? should he serve a penalty (not the 1st time he had exposed his cards at the wrong time)

He may still call. If he's already had a warning about this then yes he should recieve some sort of penalty.

[pokermuppet]

How long ago did the rule change? what would you rule with the old ruling?

Does the fact that he had plenty of 500 and 100 chips make a difference?

Does the fact he intended to raise make a difference?

What would you rule if he had put a 1000 chip and 2 500 chips in the middle?

[marcin123]

What would you rule if he had put a 1000 chip and 2 500 chips in the middle?

Depends on how many 500 chips he had... If he had more than 2 500 chips and said nothing and put them accross the line it would be classed as a raise...

[Cf]

Rule was only just introduced recently, but it's always been that way really. This was just to clarify it.

33.  Multiple Chips
Unless a raise has been declared, placing multiple chips in the pot that add to less than double the bet one is facing will be deemed a call if removal of any one chip leaves less than the bet the player could have called.

So the 1x1000 2x500 example is a call, because removal of the 1000 chip only leaves behind 1000 which is less than the bet the player is facing.

The amount of chips in his stack is obviously irrelevent.

The fact he intended to raise is relevent, but only if he said raise beforehand. If you're going to make non-verbal bets (like i do pretty much 100% of the time unless i don't ahev change) then be sure to know the rules.

All this said however, I think most places would treat 1x1000 2x500 as a raise as this rule is quite new.

[outragous76]

What would you rule if he had put a 1000 chip and 2 500 chips in the middle?

for me hand 1 is a raise for this reason

thought the rule was 1 oversize chip

[Cf]

What would you rule if he had put a 1000 chip and 2 500 chips in the middle?

for me hand 1 is a raise for this reason

thought the rule was 1 oversize chip

the new Multiple Chips rule is a sort of extension to the Oversized Chip rule. In the first hand for example, 1000 might be the highest denom chip in play. So it's not possible for the player to call with only 1 chip, he needs to use 2. He's not got any 100/500s left so needs to use a 2nd 1000.

[celtic]

1 is a call

2 is an under raise at luton, rightly or wrongly if someone makes it 1600 then a min raise would need to be 3200.

3 he can call but can only call or fold for the remaining streets if any further action.

[pokermuppet]

Rulings given

1/  Ruled as a call, but if 3 chips had gone in the pot they said it would of been a raise, another floor ruled later that he would of made it a raise to 2200

2/ Ruled during the hand at the time as an under-raise, later on floor ruled that action was live

3/ Hand was killed as it had been exposed while facing action, no penalty was given

[doubleup]

Rulings given

1/  Ruled as a call, but if 3 chips had gone in the pot they said it would of been a raise, another floor ruled later that he would of made it a raise to 2200
2/ Ruled during the hand at the time as an under-raise, later on floor ruled that action was live

3/ Hand was killed as it had been exposed while facing action, no penalty was given

Please name the venue so that it can be avoided

[RichEO]

1. It should be deemed a call.

2. Betting is reopened.

3. He is allowed to call.

+1

+2

[cia260895]

1. It should be deemed a call.

2. Betting is reopened.

3. He is allowed to call.

+1

+2

+3