how to play cash ?

[lazaroonie]

I have been playing tournament poker (generally Holdem NL) for a good few years and would consider myself a reasonable player, with probably more than my fair share of wins/final tables under my belt (online and live).

Recently i have started playing cash, on the web, and am losing a bucket. I have realised the reason for this, is I havent a clue how to play the game. I know its different to tourney play, but my question is , how different ?

Tournament play, I would call myself tight aggressive. When I do play a "premium" hand, I will use what I know to extract the maximum value out of that hand.

So basically the question is - how do you convert tournament strategy to playing cash ?

My problem is not one of being too timid - in fact it might be the opposite. I am not scared to get my money in the middle.

Secondly, are there any sites which are better for playing cash games than others ?

[byronkincaid]

I just play NL cash like I would play level 1 in a sng and whilst obviously I'm a long way from being a good cash player it seems to work ok at the $100 level.

[Sunday8pm]

to sum it up in a few sentences,

1. your MONEY cards are those that are disguised from your opponent. i.e suited connectors etc. Opponents are more likely to pay you off if the board looks dead and your sitting there holding a straight, dont be afraid to raise with these cards pre flop because that will add to the disguise as they may put you on overcards....pair etc and pay you off with a weak hand.

2. dont be afraid to raise big draws, if you have an open ended straight flush draw etc etc then dont be afraid to raise them....IMO a big mistake people make is just calling draws....if you call your opponents bet, he/she will think you are drawing to a flush or straight and if it comes your less likely to get paid off. always disguise your hand as best as possible thats all i can say!

gl

[matt674]

So basically the question is - how do you convert tournament strategy to playing cash ?

You dont - if you do thats why you lose buckets. It would be like starting off with £100 at a £0.50/£1 tables and every 10 minutes stepping up to the next cash table level £1/£2 then after another 10 minutes to £2/£4. Until either (1) you go broke or (2) you somehow make it to the £100/£200 table win £10000 and decide to retire for the day. If you want to play in cash games then you need a different style but being a mtt monkey i wouldn't know what that was!!

If you are a good multi table tourney player and make a decent profit from it then stick to mtt's. You find that a lot of players who are good at cash games are terrible at mtt's and visa versa, there are probably only a handful who have the skill and ability to make a decent living at both.

[thetank]

I think one of the main differences is this...

You can get away with the not knowing the odds in tournaments. You just need to know them roughly, most of the time, if a desicion is marginal it'll be left well alone. In tournaments "draws are death"

In cash games, a more thorough knowledge of the odds is needed, what you'd chuck away in a tournament needs to be played with sometimes in cash play.

Another difference is there is usually more betting on all the streets and more multi-way pots in cash games.

What Sunday8pm said is sound advice.

[Gryffles]

In cash games your looking to exploit every +EV situation , provided your bankroll can handle it.

In tournament play, you cannot take this approach, your bankroll is on the table so to speak, you need to avoid marginal situations, try and see a lot of flops from late position cheaply.
In a tournament you may recieve a series of beats and have only half your chipstack remaining, and if the blinds are at a high enough level, you will be forced to make a play, this should never ever happen in a cash game. ( ie taking higher risks because of your stack size ).

[Longy]

Right im mainly a cash game player myself. Firstly to echo what Matt says if you are good profitable MTT player i would avoid cash games if you are losing, they are certainly less fun and the enjoyment to be had is from the winning in my experience. I have found that my live tourney suffers from playing cash on the internet, they are different disciplines and switching from one to the other is not easy.

Sunday 8pm makes a good point while your big pairs will make you money in cash game if played well, playing hands that are well disguised works well for winning big poots. This is about starting requirements obviously to start with, my personal favourite is small pairs i play them to hit sets. They are heavily disguised on raggy boards and the amount of cash players who can't get away from top pair or an overpair is vast.

This brings me on to another point you have to know when your beat, the classic example IMO is something like this you hold  Ah and you raise and get two callers flop comes  , this looks good so you bet and it goes call, call. Then say comes down on the the turn and you bet again and now it goes  raise, call. If you read both of your opponents to be non-fish your hand is so rarely good here that it is time to throw it away the majority of the time, yet i put money 80% + of cash players will at least call the turn raise. The other 20% or so you will find more often than not are the winning players. Learn when your hand is not good, putting your opponents on a range of hands is a vital skill.

Maths is important in cash play you have to know your odds without this you are going to be leaking money.

[matt674]

This brings me on to another point you have to know when your beat. Learn when your hand is not good, putting your opponents on a range of hands is a vital skill.

I think this applies just as much to tourney players as well as cash - i never play cash because i know i'm a better mtt player but this is something you need in tourney play as well. the number of times (especially online) i've seen people throw away their remaining chips when its obvious they are beat its untrue.

When i've watched cash games i've noticed that the players take far more chances with marginal hands that you wouldnt do in a tourney, afterall if you gamble and lose all you have to do is put your hand back into your pocket and pull out more money (provided your bankroll can sustain it). You cant do that in a tourney, once your lose all your chips then that's it - your out. (exlcuding rebuy periods obv!)

[ripple11]

Laz.....I'm the exact same as you!....and I've come to the conclusion just to stay away from cash and specialise in what I'm good at !!(or think I am )

[RED-DOG]

Great thread, good question, interesting informative answers

[lazaroonie]

I agree, the answers have been great.

It would appear that they are two different games which just happen to be played with the same cards......and because you are decent at one, doesnt make you any good at the other.

So, who is up for a game tongiht when we bust out of the Cincin's tourney tonight ?

 

[mikkyT]

 As Ah

Unraised pot, the raise will be £1 with £5. Just so you know.

[mikkyT]

Oh, and the bet on the flop will be £15.

[Newmanseye]

I agree, the answers have been great.

It would appear that they are two different games which just happen to be played with the same cards......and because you are decent at one, doesnt make you any good at the other.

So, who is up for a game tongiht when we bust out of the Cincin's tourney tonight ?

 

I dont reccomend you sit at the cash game laz, Not at my table anyway. I am quite the opposit of your good self I am a good cash player but pretty much a fish in tourney play.

[Coca919]

What Sunday8pm said is sound advice.

Shame he can't put it into practice!