About time

[bobby1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8512077.stm

a good chance that there will be more too.

[action man]

about time what?

didnt realise he'd been conficted.

[bobby1]

he hasnt. Yet.

[The Camel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8512077.stm

a good chance that there will be more too.

20+ years ago, I heard about a player who had gone bent in a first round match of some tournament which doesn't exist any more.

The bets were down and we eagerly awaited the match.

It all started to go wrong as soon as the players were introduced to the crowd.

Our hero bounced into the arena all set to do his worst, but when his opponent hobbled into the arena with 2 walking sticks we knew something was amiss..

The guy had been doing a spot of painting and decorating the day before and fallen off his ladder. He had hurt his back badly and was unable to bend over meaning he had to play every shot (including the breakoff!) using the rest. The first 4 frames took 3 hours to complete and with a top break of 19 they made the interval 2-2 (first to 5).

A geezer from the WPBSA made a trip to our heros dressing room to inform him they knew of "suspicious betting patterns" and if he lost, he would never play professional snooker ever again.

I never got involved with bent coups again

[bobby1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8512077.stm

a good chance that there will be more too.

20+ years ago, I heard about a player who had gone bent in a first round match of some tournament which doesn't exist any more.

The bets were down and we eagerly awaited the match.

It all started to go wrong as soon as the players were introduced to the crowd.

Our hero bounced into the arena all set to do his worst, but when his opponent hobbled into the arena with 2 walking sticks we knew something was amiss..

The guy had been doing a spot of painting and decorating the day before and fallen off his ladder. He had hurt his back badly and was unable to bend over meaning he had to play every shot (including the breakoff!) using the rest. The first 4 frames took 3 hours to complete and with a top break of 19 they made the interval 2-2 (first to 5).

A geezer from the WPBSA made a trip to our heros dressing room to inform him they knew of "suspicious betting patterns" and if he lost, he would never play professional snooker ever again.

I never got involved with bent coups again

lol, brilliant.

Lets imagine you work in the betting industry and there is  a match between say, player A who is an ex world number 5 and player B who is a Scottish world champion ,many times over.

There have been some very iffy matches over the previous 6 months and even the players are on guard now as some are starting to feel the heat. Coups on matches are now getting investigated by police so its time to play it str8 and not do anything daft.

Lets imagine that a load of punters that are all known or coded up as attatched to said ex world number 5, including players best friend, players put-eron-er all all betting the other player to win the first frame at 8/11. Then when the price is as short as 2/5 after all the firms get hit they are still betting on the other player to win the first frame. Imagine that is about the 5th time in 2 years that this players mates had been betting against their man to lose the first frame of a match.

Then imagine that the ex world number 5 gets in about 5 times and then manages to get himself out again almost str8 away, including playing a safety shot that leaves the last red over a pocket which indeed finally allows the other player to win the frame.

Ex world number 5 goes 1-0 down but comes back to win the match, so no evidnce of match fixing but in the next round some firms put out first frame winner prices and the same people come on again to bet the other guy before the firms that were up take it down. A ring around to various mates working at other firms and it is the same people all connected to player A betting him to lose the first frame in a number of matches in the last 2 years.

How do you see it?

[The Camel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8512077.stm

a good chance that there will be more too.

20+ years ago, I heard about a player who had gone bent in a first round match of some tournament which doesn't exist any more.

The bets were down and we eagerly awaited the match.

It all started to go wrong as soon as the players were introduced to the crowd.

Our hero bounced into the arena all set to do his worst, but when his opponent hobbled into the arena with 2 walking sticks we knew something was amiss..

The guy had been doing a spot of painting and decorating the day before and fallen off his ladder. He had hurt his back badly and was unable to bend over meaning he had to play every shot (including the breakoff!) using the rest. The first 4 frames took 3 hours to complete and with a top break of 19 they made the interval 2-2 (first to 5).

A geezer from the WPBSA made a trip to our heros dressing room to inform him they knew of "suspicious betting patterns" and if he lost, he would never play professional snooker ever again.

I never got involved with bent coups again

lol, brilliant.

Lets imagine you work in the betting industry and there is  a match between say, player A who is an ex world number 5 and player B who is a Scottish world champion ,many times over.

There have been some very iffy matches over the previous 6 months and even the players are on guard now as some are starting to feel the heat. Coups on matches are now getting investigated by police so its time to play it str8 and not do anything daft.

Lets imagine that a load of punters that are all known or coded up as attatched to said ex world number 5, including players best friend, players put-eron-er all all betting the other player to win the first frame at 8/11. Then when the price is as short as 2/5 after all the firms get hit they are still betting on the other player to win the first frame. Imagine that is about the 5th time in 2 years that this players mates had been betting against their man to lose the first frame of a match.

Then imagine that the ex world number 5 gets in about 5 times and then manages to get himself out again almost str8 away, including playing a safety shot that leaves the last red over a pocket which indeed finally allows the other player to win the frame.

Ex world number 5 goes 1-0 down but comes back to win the match, so no evidnce of match fixing but in the next round some firms put out first frame winner prices and the same people come on again to bet the other guy before the firms that were up take it down. A ring around to various mates working at other firms and it is the same people all connected to player A betting him to lose the first frame in a number of matches in the last 2 years.

How do you see it?

The problem with sportsmen who want to go bent is that they are either: a) too greedy or b) too stupid (or very probably both a and b).

If they wanted to nick a couple of grand to feed their cocaine habit or pay for the expensive hookers they enjoy indulging in behind the mrs's back they could pull off a coup like the one you describe absolutely no problem.

But, when a player is "not off" the whole world has to know about it and it would take the most stupid bookmaker in the world not to notice the suspicious betting patterns.

They try and get tens of thousands on games where they are actually playing for a few hundred quid.

What bookmaker isn't going to smell a whole raft of rats?

[bobby1]

Exactly, said world number 5 also has a history of pulling out of matches with a bad neck when he has incorrectly timed the length between his last session of his favourite 'herbal tobacco' and the tests done before a tourney.

[AndrewT]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

[bobby1]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

Spot on. What seems to happen is it gets thru the first time and they think its gonna be a gold mine, then after a couple more goes there are now so many people trying to get on, as a mate has told a mate he trusts, who told a mate he trusts etc etc that it is obvious.Problem is for the ones that started it and the player they dont reslise what they have now created and as you say it is as clear as day.

[The Camel]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

Spot on. What seems to happen is it gets thru the first time and they think its gonna be a gold mine, then after a couple more goes there are now so many people trying to get on, as a mate has told a mate he trusts, who told a mate he trusts etc etc that it is obvious.Problem is for the ones that started it and the player they dont reslise what they have now created and as you say it is as clear as day.

Phil, do you remember the Jimmy White / Peter Francisco World Championship match a few years ago?

They backed the correct score of 13-2 down to 5/4 and were still trying to get on.

When it got to 12-2 Jimmy tried to fcuk them by losing the next frame.

Jack Karnham was doing the commentary for the Beeb and said something like "This is pretty poor stuff at the moment, not really the sort of performances you expect from professionals!".

Jimmy finally won the frame and then walked out without shaking Francisco's hand. I don't think either the Fransisco's ever played on tv again after that.

[AndrewT]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

Spot on. What seems to happen is it gets thru the first time and they think its gonna be a gold mine, then after a couple more goes there are now so many people trying to get on, as a mate has told a mate he trusts, who told a mate he trusts etc etc that it is obvious.Problem is for the ones that started it and the player they dont reslise what they have now created and as you say it is as clear as day.

Yeah - betting coups don't work if people can't stop blabbing about them.

[ACE2M]

feel sorry for the punters backing the other side thinking it looks like value.

[bobby1]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

Spot on. What seems to happen is it gets thru the first time and they think its gonna be a gold mine, then after a couple more goes there are now so many people trying to get on, as a mate has told a mate he trusts, who told a mate he trusts etc etc that it is obvious.Problem is for the ones that started it and the player they dont reslise what they have now created and as you say it is as clear as day.

Phil, do you remember the Jimmy White / Peter Francisco World Championship match a few years ago?

They backed the correct score of 13-2 down to 5/4 and were still trying to get on.

When it got to 12-2 Jimmy tried to fcuk them by losing the next frame.

Jack Karnham was doing the commentary for the Beeb and said something like "This is pretty poor stuff at the moment, not really the sort of performances you expect from professionals!".

Jimmy finally won the frame and then walked out without shaking Francisco's hand. I don't think either the Fransisco's ever played on tv again after that.

I was there Keith, my mate did all the snooker pricing at the venues when that firm had the contract. We had been out on Friday night and were a little worse for wear. The venue opened at 9 am and we got there at 9.05. He has put up the prices for that match the night before on the board and there were 20 people in a queue wanting a bet. So we opened up, and the first bet was a £3500 on White to win the game ( i cant remember the price but it was cash to cash so prob 1/7 or 1/14) and a £200 quid on 10-2 at about 14/1. No probs

Of the next 19 people 18 bet 10-2, after the first 5 we went about 9/1, they still bet it, even the ones that had already had some 14/1 came back and wanted 9/1, so we took it down and rang the office to see what we should do. They tell us you have to put it out but just lengthen a few of the Francisco prices and we will keep an eye on it. 9/1 became 5/1 and then 5/2 and by now the snowball has started and even the punters that were not in on it realised what was going on.

my mate rings the biggest punter at the venues in those days. Harry F (owns a tank now) and asks him if he knows whats going on and to his credit he says'its a bad game Steve, I m not going anywhere near it, it looks like they are at it again.

As you say 10-2 goes off 5 to 4, in that frame at 12-2, Francisco pots a ball and tries to get top side of the pink with the white, the cue ball ends up on the bottom cushion about 18 inches away from where it should have gone. The comms all knew what was going on as everyone did by now and one of came out with' he wont be happy with that one'.

Francisco got an indefinite ban from the game and was working in a factory in Aberdeen last I heard. Silvino Franciscon had pulled that trick off many times before, he lost a game to Terry Griffiths 5-1 or 5-2 ish the year before that almost  got him banned. The problem when this kind of thing started happening was the ruling body just accused bookmakers of creating trouble cos they had lost a few quid, so the players thought they could just run it when ever they fancied it.

and that leads us to 15 years on where the snooker authoirities have their heads in the sand again and the players don't fear being punished.

They just think they have got a little cute about it now so instead of losing matches you lose the first frame, or dont make the highest break etc etc

[ACE2M]

Surely with all the computer systems tagging punters, bets, price movements etc these days there is just no way that anything like this is ever not going to get spotted.

Spot on. What seems to happen is it gets thru the first time and they think its gonna be a gold mine, then after a couple more goes there are now so many people trying to get on, as a mate has told a mate he trusts, who told a mate he trusts etc etc that it is obvious.Problem is for the ones that started it and the player they dont reslise what they have now created and as you say it is as clear as day.

Phil, do you remember the Jimmy White / Peter Francisco World Championship match a few years ago?

They backed the correct score of 13-2 down to 5/4 and were still trying to get on.

When it got to 12-2 Jimmy tried to fcuk them by losing the next frame.

Jack Karnham was doing the commentary for the Beeb and said something like "This is pretty poor stuff at the moment, not really the sort of performances you expect from professionals!".

Jimmy finally won the frame and then walked out without shaking Francisco's hand. I don't think either the Fransisco's ever played on tv again after that.

I was there Keith, my mate did all the snooker pricing at the venues when that firm had the contract. We had been out on Friday night and were a little worse for wear. The venue opened at 9 am and we got there at 9.05. He has put up the prices for that match the night before on the board and there were 20 people in a queue wanting a bet. So we opened up, and the first bet was a £3500 on White to win the game ( i cant remember the price but it was cash to cash so prob 1/7 or 1/14) and a £200 quid on 10-2 at about 14/1. No probs

Of the next 19 people 18 bet 10-2, after the first 5 we went about 9/1, they still bet it, even the ones that had already had some 14/1 came back and wanted 9/1, so we took it down and rang the office to see what we should do. They tell us you have to put it out but just lengthen a few of the Francisco prices and we will keep an eye on it. 9/1 became 5/1 and then 5/2 and by now the snowball has started and even the punters that were not in on it realised what was going on.

my mate rings the biggest punter at the venues in those days. Harry F (owns a tank now) and asks him if he knows whats going on and to his credit he says'its a bad game Steve, I m not going anywhere near it, it looks like they are at it again.

As you say 10-2 goes off 5 to 4, in that frame at 12-2, Francisco pots a ball and tries to get top side of the pink with the white, the cue ball ends up on the bottom cushion about 18 inches away from where it should have gone. The comms all knew what was going on as everyone did by now and one of came out with' he wont be happy with that one'.

Francisco got an indefinite ban from the game and was working in a factory in Aberdeen last I heard. Silvino Franciscon had pulled that trick off many times before, he lost a game to Terry Griffiths 5-1 or 5-2 ish the year before that almost  got him banned. The problem when this kind of thing started happening was the ruling body just accused bookmakers of creating trouble cos they had lost a few quid, so the players thought they could just run it when ever they fancied it.

and that leads us to 15 years on where the snooker authoirities have their heads in the sand again and the players don't fear being punished.

They just think they have got a little cute about it now so instead of losing matches you lose the first frame, or dont make the highest break etc etc

but this is much more obvious - easier to spot on low volume markets. Dump the match and nobody bats an eyelid at a 20k bet on match winner on betfair.

[bobby1]

Thats very true Ace,and you and I understand that but this is where it always goes wrong. The people asking for, say a 3k bets in a low volume market dont understand how far that stands out. When there are other suspicious bets too it just lights it up. As you say it would be easier to get a 20k on BF but the penalty for 'match fixing' is career over. I guess they think that minor markets are worth trying to make a few quid on as it is harder to throw a set of frames to get a result than just one.