nfd v laggy 3bettor, thoughts on hero and villains line

[AlexMartin]

3/6 microgaming, villain appears to be a winning reg, not masses of history, bar the fact he has an insanely high 3bet of around 13%. Am i being results orientated or is his line total dogshit?

***** Hand History for Game 3185008206 ***** (Prima)
$600.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, March 03, 07:09:18 ET 2010
Table The Staying 2 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: traian7 ( $600.00 USD )
Seat 2: jammyjenny ( $600.00 USD )
Seat 3: sarmapt ( $600.00 USD )
Seat 4: gambrinus62 ( $1053.00 USD )
Seat 5: roddias ( $702.00 USD )
Seat 6: Forel1a ( $753.00 USD )
gambrinus62 posts small blind [$3.00 USD].
roddias posts big blind [$6.00 USD].
Dealt to jammyjenny [  As ]
Forel1a folds
jammyjenny raises [$18.00 USD]
gambrinus62 folds
roddias raises [$60.00 USD]
jammyjenny calls [$48.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
roddias bets [$72.00 USD]
jammyjenny raises [$224.00 USD]
roddias raises [$558.00 USD]
jammyjenny calls [$310.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
roddias shows [, ]
jammyjenny doesn't show [As, ]
roddias wins $1200.00 USD from main pot
roddias wins $96.00 USD from main pot

[GreekStein]

Yeah not a huge fan of his line but I don't like your call of the 3 bet pre Alex.

It might be easier for him to take the line he did if he knows you defend 3 bets with such a wide range.

[doubleup]

Is A2s a great hand to flat a 3 bet - imo wouldn't it be a better hand to bluff 4 bet with?*  What kind of hands would you bluff 4 bet someone who 3 bets so much?  






*I've been watching videos again

[bobby1]

Alex, Isnt the point of knowing that the guy three bets very light that you can re pop him when he does three bet.

[titaniumbean]

we're only 100 bbs deep so dont really like 4 bet bluffing unless hes really really bat sheet agro.


3betting from sb should theoretically be stronger, considering its a 3 bet pot that flop is a cooooooler. have you 4 bet him before? how does he react to other peoples 4 bets?

[doubleup]

we're only 100 bbs deep so dont really like 4 bet bluffing unless hes really really bat sheet agro.

4 betting to 26bb is perfectly acceptable as a bluff or for value with 100bb stacks - why do you require to be deeper (Unless you want to blow the dust of the 6 bet bluff)?

[Cottonbud]

Is A2s a great hand to flat a 3 bet - imo wouldn't it be a better hand to bluff 4 bet with?*  What kind of hands would you bluff 4 bet someone who 3 bets so much?  






*I've been watching videos again

Correct!

[Cottonbud]

Is A2s a great hand to flat a 3 bet - imo wouldn't it be a better hand to bluff 4 bet with?*  What kind of hands would you bluff 4 bet someone who 3 bets so much?  






*I've been watching videos again

Saw a video recently where Galfond flats a 4bet out of 100bb stacks with A2s. It's the future.

Schwartz has been doing this for a while now also!

[Doobs]

I don't mind calling here, but not really sure I want to be adding to my 4 bet folding range?

[doubleup]

I don't mind calling here, but not really sure I want to be adding to my 4 bet folding range?

Its obv villain dependent.  The way that I understood it is that you start by working out villains 5 betting value range by assuming that villains 3 bet is made up of 60% bluffs and 40% value.  

So if villain is 3 betting 10% you assume that 4% is value so as a result your value 4 bet would be say 3% and your 4 bet bluffs should be 2% (4 bet value to bluffs ratio should be 6/4).  On top of this you should be calling twice as much as raising, so calling e.g ATo - AQo in this example (nb only calling in position, you shldnt call if u were utg and were 3 bet by the btn which I assume is the type of situation with the 4 bet call from galfond).

[AlexMartin]

I don't mind calling here, but not really sure I want to be adding to my 4 bet folding range?

Its obv villain dependent.  The way that I understood it is that you start by working out villains 5 betting value range by assuming that villains 3 bet is made up of 60% bluffs and 40% value.  

So if villain is 3 betting 10% you assume that 4% is value so as a result your value 4 bet would be say 3% and your 4 bet bluffs should be 2% (4 bet value to bluffs ratio should be 6/4).  On top of this you should be calling twice as much as raising, so calling e.g ATo - AQo in this example (nb only calling in position, you shldnt call if u were utg and were 3 bet by the btn which I assume is the type of situation with the 4 bet call from galfond).

problem is as doobs describes, players will 5b bluff a decent chunk. With a2ss specifically, i will flop aces villain will barrel and often flop a relatively strong draw, gutter+over+bdfd and nfd's. Im not concerned too much with preflop, if i assigned a frequency it would prolly be fold 60%, 4b/flat 20%.

[EvilPie]

Is A2s a great hand to flat a 3 bet - imo wouldn't it be a better hand to bluff 4 bet with?*  What kind of hands would you bluff 4 bet someone who 3 bets so much?  






*I've been watching videos again

Saw a video recently where Galfond flats a 4bet out of 100bb stacks with A2s. It's the future.

Schwartz has been doing this for a while now also!

They both got it from Alex"mfckin"Martin innit.

[doubleup]

With a2ss specifically, i will flop aces villain will barrel and often flop a relatively strong draw, gutter+over+bdfd and nfd's. 

Well thats fine - just make sure all the villains know that you always play fit or fold when calling in 3 bet pots, then they won't stick it in with top pair no kicker.

[AlexMartin]

With a2ss specifically, i will flop aces villain will barrel and often flop a relatively strong draw, gutter+over+bdfd and nfd's. 

Well thats fine - just make sure all the villains know that you always play fit or fold when calling in 3 bet pots, then they won't stick it in with top pair no kicker.

what?

[doubleup]

With a2ss specifically, i will flop aces villain will barrel and often flop a relatively strong draw, gutter+over+bdfd and nfd's. 

Well thats fine - just make sure all the villains know that you always play fit or fold when calling in 3 bet pots, then they won't stick it in with top pair no kicker.

what?

you have a huge weak range, villain has a pair and knows you have nothing a huge amount of time.

Postflop Analysis with a board of

With known hole cards of

All cards    Total Combos = 224

88 - 66, ATs - A2s, AQo - A8o, KJs - K6s, KQo - K9o,
QJs - Q8s, QJo - QTo, JTs - J8s, JTo, T9s,

 *  Any Pair   Combos = 26/224    Percent =11.61%
 *  NoPair/NoDraw   Combos = 178/224    Percent =79.46%