£2/£5 River Spot (Again)

[Mitch]

OK following hand from a £2/£5 NLH game at DTD.

Bit of a build up to the hand, Villain is unknown to me, started at the table with £500 well and spun upto £750 by fast playing trips vs a PFR to stack him. Played the hand pretty well and looked like he knew what he was doing. He later stacked off with what i pressume were aces / kings on a very wet 4 club board when he had been 3 bet in a 3way pot on the turn in a situation he could never be winning. Did the lot, played 50p/£1 for a bit and then comes and sits back down with £600. We manage to get it in pre for £1200+ pot with my aces being no good vs his jacks when the window comes a jack (50p). So start of this hand which is about 1 orbit later, he has ~£1200 and i cover him.

Game is currently 6 handed.

UTG straddles £10 (£250 stack)
UTG+1 raises to £35 (£2k stack)
I call with  out of small blind (£1700 stack)
BB calls (Villain £1200 stack), as does the straddle. 4 way to the flop (Pot £140)

Flop comes a rather nice 
Checked to the straddle who leads for £75, OR folds, I decide to call and the BB also calls. (Pot £365)

Turn comes the  .

I check thinking the shortie will prob get the rest of his £150ish in but its checked all round.

I  know I should have deff bet here as need to get value from all the  type of hands and smaller FD's the BB might have but i was pretty sure that if the shortie was gonna bet that board on the flop, the 8 cant make much difference and he would get it in, but nope he checks.

River comes the brick that is the   

I decide to bet £220 hoping to get called by a weak ace if the BB has one or whatever the UTG was betting the flop with as he doesnt have much behind. (maybe should check to induce?)

Anyway, the BB makes it £600.


...........

[marcin123]

raise flop 100% of the time...

[Girgy85]

raise flop 100% of the time...

+1

[LeedsRhodesy]

raise flop 100% of the time...

why??  i guess you check raise the flop they both fold and you miss value if you had of hit, Should of bet the turn but you know that, your unluckly if he has A8 A9 but  i just call here

[EvilPie]

raise flop 100% of the time...

I hate inflating this pot when we're deep and out of position.

We've got a hand that has excellent showdown value if we don't improve so we can look to check call all the way.

Yes if we make the nut flush we want the pot bigger but it's a big gamble to take because usually we don't improve from our pair. This pot is only likely to get huge if one of our oppos has us beat and then we 100% need the nut flush or we're in a world of pain.

By check calling the flop we under rep our hand and have a good chance of someone betting with a worse hand. If we raise the flop we scare everyone who we are ahead of in to giving up.

Check call river would've been my preferred play but as played it's a sigh fold. If he's bluffed you just do a little sick on to his stack when he's not looking.

[GreekStein]

I'm not a huge fan of check raising this flop when 350bbs deep and OOP. I would prefer lead/4-betting than c-raising but I do a cawl here.

I'm not as good at getting thin value in these situations as you Mitch so I sometimes check call these rivers, esp when all draws brick and I can induce bluffs on the river but his river raise really makes me think he isn't bluffing.

Was it the light haired lad with glasses?

[Mitch]

I'm not a huge fan of check raising this flop when 350bbs deep and OOP. I would prefer lead/4-betting than c-raising but I do a cawl here.

I'm not as good at getting thin value in these situations as you Mitch so I sometimes check call these rivers, esp when all draws brick and I can induce bluffs on the river but his river raise really makes me think he isn't bluffing.

Was it the light haired lad with glasses?

No, this was from last night Cos, guy was prob in his 40's, I dont think ive ever played with him before.

Ill wait for a few more replies before i add anything else myself.

[paulhouk03]

I think its terrible raising the flop

ur oop

I would check call river coz we have show down value and I would like too see his cards
Also I am too nooby to do any thing fancy with just aq here

[paulhouk03]

I was ment to put also ur oop and deep

Does the 2 5 game play that deep?

[Mitch]

I was ment to put also ur oop and deep

Does the 2 5 game play that deep?

There are usually a few ppl who with with a £1K plus, yeh.

This was quite towards the end of the night so were some decent stacks, but like i said, villain is only so deep due to a double up from 2 outer on me. 

[action man]

so the BB check/calls flop after straddle c-bets and you call? The hands he should have to raise on the river are 88/99/AA/A8/A9/22 a random 8 and a load of missed draws.
Which of the hands that beat us check call 3way on this flop?? Surely 2 pair or a set raise the flop 3way? id probably check/call with river with our bluff catcher, as played i think i still call vs this guy.

[Skgv]

I think in general the abc standard type of player its a check call the river after the way you have decided to play it flop an turn but due to the fact you have a great read of betting an raising for value in river spots in the small amount of time i have played with an you an what your friends say, i think in this case betting out the river for value or inducing someone to make this move on the river here with your stlye of play is not bad at all. The problem here the way you describe the player an at these stakes more often an not he will have you beat, wheres in a higher stakes game an especially in the US the game is played wt a little more flair from the old as well as the young wheres in the uk the general over 40's wouldnt be bluffing in this spot here! I hope this makes sense!

[GreekStein]

I think in general the abc standard type of player its a check call the river after the way you have decided to play it flop an turn but due to the fact you have a great read of betting an raising for value in river spots in the small amount of time i have played with an you an what your friends say, i think in this case betting out the river for value or inducing someone to make this move on the river here with your stlye of play is not bad at all. The problem here the way you describe the player an at these stakes more often an not he will have you beat, wheres in a higher stakes game an especially in the US the game is played wt a little more flair from the old as well as the young wheres in the uk the general over 40's wouldnt be bluffing in this spot here! I hope this makes sense!

I thought you were deleting all your strategy posts because you don't want to give people an insight into your thinking? xx

[AlexMartin]

so the BB check/calls flop after straddle c-bets and you call? The hands he should have to raise on the river are 88/99/AA/A8/A9/22 a random 8 and a load of missed draws.
Which of the hands that beat us check call 3way on this flop?? Surely 2 pair or a set raise the flop 3way? id probably check/call with river with our bluff catcher, as played i think i still call vs this guy.

this line of thinking gets us totally fucked by tricky players, however, given how the older generation overvalue protection, i think this is a clear call for the reasons trigg stated.

[Skgv]

lol GREEKSTEIN, Just dying for a reaction! IL stop if u like??? Just kills me reading it an not saying anything ! Be good 2 know if people think i talk out of my assssss.... Like going back to school!!! xx