results

[The Camel]

Guido Fawkes seems to think a Lib/Con pact and electoral reform could banish Labour from government for ever:

http://order-order.com/2010/05/07/the-change-coalition-part-iii/

It's round about here I get confused by what the lid dems are about. The liberal side seems to fit with the tories but the socialists side with Labour.

I remember when Labour got thwacked in 1983 (and to a lesser extent in 1992) and when Major/Howard got trounced by Blair all the pundits said Labour/Conservatives* (delete as appropriate) would never be in power again.

It was a load of old bollox then, and it is now. Circumstances change massively.

[Bongo]

I guess he's thinking that PR would mean LD and Con coalition would always have a majority between and they would combine as a small government government against the statist Labour party.

Just read here that Clegg might have no choice but to turn down Cameron:
http://charlottegore.com/2010/05/07/cleggs-impossible-position.html

[thetank]

I don't like PR, I love the democracy as it is.

Bring on the referendum though. Just bring it.
Let's work together baby!!!!

Tory fiscal responsibility  to sort out the credit card bill coupled with libdem social responsibility to stop us snatching too much milk.  
Politicians fixing the reputation of parliament by showing they can talk to each other. Having to talk about pros and cons of policies for a change, rather than just bullshitting and obfuscating.
More of a mandate in Scotland than 1 seat. gg Salmond, not the dream result you thought it was 3 hours ago.

This could be a historic day.

or it could all go wrong. Zomg tho, they're giving it a boosch.

[The Camel]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

[Jon MW]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

With first past the post, you can get second place in every constituency but not get any MP's

With PR you can get 100% of the vote within a constituency, but not get elected.

They're the simplistic extremes, but PR is certainly not without it's problems.

[Dingdell]

Just watching the Cameron speech - he says he welcomes input from the lib dems then he licked his lips - surely a sign of discomfort and lying if my poker books are right?

[Ironside]

ok imagine the senerio

clegg and cameron find there isnt enough common ground and talks break down
brown gets on phone to clegg and clegg says we cant support you as PM
the labour party big wigs tell brown to FO, and then get back to clegg
with no leadership in place for labour they agree to a pact with clegg as PM


possible?

[The Camel]

ok imagine the senerio

clegg and cameron find there isnt enough common ground and talks break down
brown gets on phone to clegg and clegg says we cant support you as PM
the labour party big wigs tell brown to FO, and then get back to clegg
with no leadership in place for labour they agree to a pact with clegg as PM


possible?

All extremely possible.

Until the last line.

[Ironside]

ok imagine the senerio

clegg and cameron find there isnt enough common ground and talks break down
brown gets on phone to clegg and clegg says we cant support you as PM
the labour party big wigs tell brown to FO, and then get back to clegg
with no leadership in place for labour they agree to a pact with clegg as PM


possible?

All extremely possible.

Until the last line.

you dont think that labour would agree to a labour government topped up with a few libs with clegg as a figurehead while they get there ship in order before a november elevtion?

[Rod Paradise]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

With first past the post, you can get second place in every constituency but not get any MP's

With PR you can get 100% of the vote within a constituency, but not get elected.

They're the simplistic extremes, but PR is certainly not without it's problems.

That's why I quite like the compromise between the 2 systems as used in the Scottish Parliament.

[Ironside]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

With first past the post, you can get second place in every constituency but not get any MP's

With PR you can get 100% of the vote within a constituency, but not get elected.

They're the simplistic extremes, but PR is certainly not without it's problems.

That's why I quite like the compromise between the 2 systems as used in the Scottish Parliament.

i dont like the scottish system as there seems to be 2 classes of MSP,

[ripple11]

ok imagine the senerio

clegg and cameron find there isnt enough common ground and talks break down
brown gets on phone to clegg and clegg says we cant support you as PM
the labour party big wigs tell brown to FO, and then get back to clegg
with no leadership in place for labour they agree to a pact with clegg as PM


possible?

don't think we will get to the second line.
Cameron will run a minority gov with the lib dems allowing only certain legislation.

[Jon MW]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

With first past the post, you can get second place in every constituency but not get any MP's

With PR you can get 100% of the vote within a constituency, but not get elected.

They're the simplistic extremes, but PR is certainly not without it's problems.

That's why I quite like the compromise between the 2 systems as used in the Scottish Parliament.

That would be the kind of option I wouldn't mind so much if PR was introduced, also the German model is quite good.

UK >>>>>>>> bigger than Scotland
UK <> significantly different political system to Germany

But something could be done eventually, they'd just need to adapt the right system with the right modifications to make it work.

[Jon MW]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

It is so ridiculously unfair that one person vote in a marginal constituency counts so much more than someone elses in a safe constituency.

And that the LDs can garner almost as many votes as Labour and only win a quarter of the seats.

PR doesn't make the German economy suffer too badly, does it?

With first past the post, you can get second place in every constituency but not get any MP's

With PR you can get 100% of the vote within a constituency, but not get elected.

They're the simplistic extremes, but PR is certainly not without it's problems.

That's why I quite like the compromise between the 2 systems as used in the Scottish Parliament.

i dont like the scottish system as there seems to be 2 classes of MSP,

First past the post you're voting for the person
PR you're voting for the party

A combination model like Scotland (and most places with PR), makes sense you just do both. Doesn't it?

[Ironside]

not when you get same people on the list as in the first past post

joe bloggs beats tony boggs in the first past the post with a huge 25% majority

but tony is on list and get in on there

then comes a issue in the area and joe tells tony to bugger off as he kicked his butt in the fpp system

happens in scotland