results

[doubleup]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process. 

[Jon MW]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process.  

It's not likely that anybody would do a deal with the BNP, but if a party got about 315 seats they could do a deal with a party of that size to form a government.

How is it a democratic or a fair process when a party the size of the BNP could end up in government?  

Maybe only a couple of ministers and some influence - but still in government

[doubleup]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process.  

It's not likely that anybody would do a deal with the BNP, but if a party got about 315 seats they could do a deal with a party of that size to form a government.

How is it a democratic or a fair process when a party the size of the BNP could end up in government?  

Maybe only a couple of ministers and some influence - but still in government

Thats what I'm saying - any system should ensure that a certain % of voters have to support a party before it gets seats in parliament.

 

[byronkincaid]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

Lembit Opik and Phillipa Stroud would have gotten seats under PR.

Instead we used first past the post. The electorate got the chance to tell the publicity hungry gonk and the nut who used to try to heal gay people by prayer to bugger off.

...and instead we get Nadine Dorries.

Nadine is much maligned, very nice person and excellent MP. Spent a lot of time with her in the last month.

hope you've claimed for your expenses

[TightEnd]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

Lembit Opik and Phillipa Stroud would have gotten seats under PR.

Instead we used first past the post. The electorate got the chance to tell the publicity hungry gonk and the nut who used to try to heal gay people by prayer to bugger off.

...and instead we get Nadine Dorries.

Nadine is much maligned, very nice person and excellent MP. Spent a lot of time with her in the last month.

hope you've claimed for your expenses

volunteer

[Bongo]

If a lab/lib coalition had a majority Clegg wouldn't be having anymore than cursory discussions with the Tories no matter how many votes they got.

You say that but I reckon Clegg has more in common with the tories than he does with Labour.

Also looks like Labour are trying to derail the ConDem coalition in private:

http://www.liberal-vision.org/2010/05/07/a-libcon-coalition-is-the-only-route-but/

By now we all know about the Liberal “triple lock”  - Nick has to get any coalition deal through his party - and as we speak Labour high command are beavering away to make sure that a Lib/Con deal breaks down. Phonelines are hot as they call senior Liberal MPs and activists to put pressure on Nick NOT to do a Tory deal - using the “Tories wont give you PR , we will” line.  How do I know - I had a call from a “mate” from the other side asking me who in my opinion were the big guns on the Federal Executive (oh how I laughed).

[Ecosse]

Have a laugh while it all unfolds.

B3ta has some seriously talented graphic artists :-

http://www.b3ta.com/links/General_Election_2010_by_b3ta

[thetank]

So the people that voted for the publicity hound & the loonball (all IMO & IYO) get no representation at all???

The people have their say and we get a government.
There's always going to be winners and losers.

You're the one telling me that an MP who is in parliament but not in government isn't worth a shite.
If you use PR, you just get a different kind of injustice with your perpetual hung parliaments and your third place party having power and your second place party having none.

[Jon MW]

Almost every election under first past the post has been won by the party with about 40% of the vote

Under proportional representation this would mean that either a party that only gets about 10% of the vote forms part of the government - is that fair?

or

The only other significant party, the Lib Dems, joins with the winners to form a government. So our choice would be between a Lib Lab government or a Lib Con government - how can an electoral system where we can't vote out the Lib Dems be fair or democratic?

[kinboshi]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

Lembit Opik and Phillipa Stroud would have gotten seats under PR.

Instead we used first past the post. The electorate got the chance to tell the publicity hungry gonk and the nut who used to try to heal gay people by prayer to bugger off.

...and instead we get Nadine Dorries.

Nadine is much maligned, very nice person and excellent MP. Spent a lot of time with her in the last month.

hope you've claimed for your expenses

LOL

He's claimed £40K of expenses, but unfortunately knows nothing about it.

[kinboshi]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process. 

Which is of course exactly how PR systems work in reality, with a percentage threshold that has to be reached before seats are allocated. But that doesn't make for such  extreme, scaremongering headlines.

[Jon MW]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process. 

Which is of course exactly how PR systems work in reality, with a percentage threshold that has to be reached before seats are allocated. But that doesn't make for such  extreme, scaremongering headlines.

it's not scaremongering, it's debating skillz

In Germany it's 5%, which probably shuts out the BNP. But under first past the post people don't always vote for who they want because they know they can't win - it's not inconceivable that their share of the vote could go up if PR was introduced.

And it doesn't alter the fact that a party who less than 10% of the country vote for could end up as part of the Government.

[Geo the Sarge]

I really cannot see any cogent argument against PR.

Lembit Opik and Phillipa Stroud would have gotten seats under PR.

Instead we used first past the post. The electorate got the chance to tell the publicity hungry gonk and the nut who used to try to heal gay people by prayer to bugger off.

...and instead we get Nadine Dorries.

Nadine is much maligned, very nice person and excellent MP. Spent a lot of time with her in the last month.

hope you've claimed for your expenses

LOL

He's claimed £40K of expenses, but unfortunately knows nothing about it.

Gave me a chuclkle - lol

Geo

[curnow]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nick-Clegg-/290433096884?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Tickets_Tickets_LE&hash=item439f295cb4

Nick Clegg for sale on ebay , only 46 bids so far + 5 pages of questions lol

[KarmaDope]

If we a had a pure PR system the BNP would have won 12 seats on Thursday

Now that may not give much influence, but it is to my mind the major downside to pure PR...the voice in legislative corridors it gives to extreme parties

but why should parties, however extreme or abhorrant (to most of us) their views, be denied a voice if they are representing a significant minority of people who voted them in? That's true democracy imo.  Of course if I had my way I'd support a system that didn't let any tories in, but that's never gonna happen

Because I think that it is reasonable for a point of view to have a certain quorum before it is taken seriously in the democratic process. 

Which is of course exactly how PR systems work in reality, with a percentage threshold that has to be reached before seats are allocated. But that doesn't make for such  extreme, scaremongering headlines.

it's not scaremongering, it's debating skillz

In Germany it's 5%, which probably shuts out the BNP. But under first past the post people don't always vote for who they want because they know they can't win - it's not inconceivable that their share of the vote could go up if PR was introduced.

And it doesn't alter the fact that a party who less than 10% of the country vote for could end up as part of the Government.

That could conceivably happen now, because if we have a Lab-Lib coalition they are gonna need the SNP and Plaid Cymru (along with the SDLP, but thats a given) with them to get a majority of seats, and I can see someone giving them a seat on Government to get them in.

Scarily enough, not only did the aforementioned parties have less than 10% of the vote, they also had less votes than the BNP!!