AK facing 3 pushes...

[MC]

$12 180-man final table.

Standard fold? Or does the fact folding leaves us with only ~6 big blinds make this a different decision?


PokerStars Game #45775082759: Tournament #284666923, $11+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2010/06/20 22:31:09 WET [2010/06/20 17:31:09 ET]
Table '284666923 20' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: MarieTalbot4 (69480 in chips)
Seat 2: marlo81 (16226 in chips)
Seat 3: KAYE276 (21956 in chips)
Seat 5: Boev.V (47236 in chips)
Seat 6: epitomised (31245 in chips)
Seat 7: Burcki (22210 in chips)
Seat 8: 4ToedStatue (38847 in chips)
Seat 9: Bowlerman14 (22800 in chips)
MarieTalbot4: posts the ante 400
marlo81: posts the ante 400
KAYE276: posts the ante 400
Boev.V: posts the ante 400
epitomised: posts the ante 400
Burcki: posts the ante 400
4ToedStatue: posts the ante 400
Bowlerman14: posts the ante 400
Boev.V: posts small blind 2000
epitomised: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to epitomised [ ]
Burcki: folds
4ToedStatue: raises 34447 to 38447 and is all-in
Bowlerman14: folds
MarieTalbot4: raises 30633 to 69080 and is all-in
marlo81: folds
KAYE276: calls 21556 and is all-in
Boev.V: folds
epitomised:

[mondatoo]

I think I would dwell sigh fold

[titaniumbean]

what an incredibly lol spot.

like part of me wants to fold, but the main part the results orientated part says they will 100% all turn over Ace rag 

[mondatoo]

I had a similar spot like this vs you actually James,may've been 9 left but u jammed 10bbs utg, mid pos jams button re-jams and I had AK in BB,i sigh folded.Only twice have I folded AK in 45mans.

[MC]

Only twice have I folded AK in 45mans.

Have you never been 3 bet by a good-reg in the 1st two levels?!

[mondatoo]

Only twice have I folded AK in 45mans.

Have you never been 3 bet by a good-reg in the 1st two levels?!

Yeah but just jam and get there vs KK wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[dino1980]

I don't play 180 mans (this is turbo i assume) so please tell me where my logic is flawed payouts are essentially 33/51/69/99//128/158/235/396/594.

At start of the hand we're 5/9 so is this not a fold even without the shorty making the third push as the first two players cover us? Also doesn't the bigstack have to be pretty strong to iso for like 60% of his stack with a lot of players to act behind him and also the original shove coming from utg+1? Lastly card removal, surely some of our outs are in one or more of the shovers hands? Yes we dominate all but KK and AA but a pair is out there right?

Also are the below ranges at all accurate of massively flawed (too nitty perhaps?)

MC   21.458%     { AcKh }
1st shover:    21.247%     { 66+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Iso shove:    28.024%     { 99+, AJs+, AQo+ }
Short shover: 29.271%  { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

[mondatoo]

I don't play 180 mans (this is turbo i assume) so please tell me where my logic is flawed payouts are essentially 33/51/69/99//128/158/235/396/594.

At start of the hand we're 5/9 so is this not a fold even without the shorty making the third push as the first two players cover us? Also doesn't the bigstack have to be pretty strong to iso for like 60% of his stack with a lot of players to act behind him and also the original shove coming from utg+1? Lastly card removal, surely some of our outs are in one or more of the shovers hands? Yes we dominate all but KK and AA but a pair is out there right?

Also are the below ranges at all accurate of massively flawed (too nitty perhaps?)

MC   21.458%     { AcKh }
1st shover:    21.247%     { 66+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Iso shove:    28.024%     { 99+, AJs+, AQo+ }
Short shover: 29.271%  { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

I'd say your ranges where a bit wide, especially for 1st shover.I certainly don't think they're too nitty.

[MC]

I don't play 180 mans (this is turbo i assume) so please tell me where my logic is flawed payouts are essentially 33/51/69/99//128/158/235/396/594.

At start of the hand we're 5/9 so is this not a fold even without the shorty making the third push as the first two players cover us? Also doesn't the bigstack have to be pretty strong to iso for like 60% of his stack with a lot of players to act behind him and also the original shove coming from utg+1? Lastly card removal, surely some of our outs are in one or more of the shovers hands? Yes we dominate all but KK and AA but a pair is out there right?

Also are the below ranges at all accurate of massively flawed (too nitty perhaps?)

MC   21.458%     { AcKh }
1st shover:    21.247%     { 66+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, AJo+, KJo+, QJo }
Iso shove:    28.024%     { 99+, AJs+, AQo+ }
Short shover: 29.271%  { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }

Yeah it's a turbo

I'd say your ranges are wide as opposed to nitty.

1st shover: { 44+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, AJo+, KQo}
Iso shove:    { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Short shover: { TT+, AJs+, AQo+ }

Yeah it probably is still the same decision without the 3rd shover. Generally the situation calls for a fairly easy fold, it's more the fact that we only have 6 big blinds if we fold, and can expect the blinds to be 2.5/5k by the time the big blind hits us next time around.

But usually you will find AA/KK or another AK out there in these spots so maybe #bbs is irrelevant, especially when factoring in ICM...

[dino1980]

The average is 30k (7.5bbs) so although we're short so are three other stacks (and the 70k stack skews the avg somewhat), apart from the shortest stack it should be pretty tough for people to call us wide despite being short. Obviously theory and reality are vastly different though. I guess the my point is this: generally in situations like this shouldn't being first into the pot and position superceed hand value to some extent? This could be just me being stuck in a 'satellite poker mindset'.

edit: yeah my ranges, especially for the open shover are defo a little wide.

[MC]

The average is 30k (7.5bbs) so although we're short so are three other stacks (and the 70k stack skews the avg somewhat), apart from the shortest stack it should be pretty tough for people to call us wide despite being short. Obviously theory and reality are vastly different though. I guess the my point is this: generally in situations like this shouldn't being first into the pot and position superceed hand value to some extent? This could be just me being stuck in a 'satellite poker mindset'.

Yeah, this makes sense.

I did fold and actual hands were 88 (1st), QQ (iso), JJ (short). Kinda interested in what the correct decision is if their hands are face up, perhaps still a fold?

[Rupert]

well face up its an easy call

[Longy]

well face up its an easy call

This.

[MC]

well face up its an easy call

This.

Okie Dokie, obv an easy +ChipEV call but thought it might still be close +$EV

[DMorgan]

Face up its a very easy call due to pot odds alone.

This is a really gross spot but since its a $12 game and people play too tight to shoves I think I'm gunna let this go, ladder up the payscale a little bit while still having some fold equity.