Celebration of life or just bad taste?

[kinboshi]

Was in a car crash with my mate, he was killed instantly, but I miraculously survived. Went to the funeral, managed to wrestle his body out of the open casket, and danced a little jig with him to 'Who let the dog's out?' while his family looked on in horror, bawling their eyes out. Don't know what got into them, it was his favourite tune, I had survived the accident against the odds and was celebrating this. His father was clearly upset but I explained to him that my intentions were pure, but he still punched me in the nose. Some people are on such a downer and need to cheer the f*** up.

Silly boy.

Your descripton of the video and its makers as 'crass' and 'idiots', is far more accurately held about this post and you.

Please refrain from personal insults and attacks.  Ad hominem attacks like this don't add to the debate - argue against the argument, not the person.

[Claw75]

When I was watching it I got that warm fuzzy feeling in me belly - pure delight for that man.  He survived and has been able to watch his family grow.  What's not to celebrate about that?

Agree with this.  He's hardly saying 'in your eye' to the people that didn't survive, just celebrating the miracle that he did.

[Woodsey]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

[kinboshi]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

[Rod Paradise]

Was in a car crash with my mate, he was killed instantly, but I miraculously survived. Went to the funeral, managed to wrestle his body out of the open casket, and danced a little jig with him to 'Who let the dog's out?' while his family looked on in horror, bawling their eyes out. Don't know what got into them, it was his favourite tune, I had survived the accident against the odds and was celebrating this. His father was clearly upset but I explained to him that my intentions were pure, but he still punched me in the nose. Some people are on such a downer and need to cheer the f*** up.

I missed the bit in the video where they did they jitterbug with a skeleton during a rememberance service attended by families of the dead.

Actually I was making an analogy not a direct reference, if you look closely you'll see a bit in the youtube vid where they're pulling happy faces in a train used to pull the bodies of his (not so lucky) brethren to their horrific deaths followed by some ridiculous little dance outside the gates inside which millions of others died slowly and painfully.
Think 'taste', 'appropriateness', 'respectfulness' and 'dignity' and you'll be halfway to seeing what might be wrong with this vid beyond the initial appearance.
[] Me not having escaped the death camp like he did precludes me from commenting on the ridiculousness of his actions. [ ] Being a survivor of Auschwitz allows you to treat the feelings of the relatives of those who didn't with insensitivity.

I think you're being WAY too sensitive - I saw it more as a get it up you to the people that tried to wipe them out in that & other camps. They tried to kill the old boy & he's now celebrating his and his descendants' very existance.

They weren't dancing on others' graves FFS they were celebrating a small victory - as every survivor from those camps is a victory, and in the end, if people don't like it, thankfully they can't kill them for it.

IF they then posted the video to the relatives of some that didn't survive, then OK your argument about taste etc comes into play. They didn't though & instead the press have pressed the 'insult' button.

[Jon MW]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

[TightPaulFolds]

Was in a car crash with my mate, he was killed instantly, but I miraculously survived. Went to the funeral, managed to wrestle his body out of the open casket, and danced a little jig with him to 'Who let the dog's out?' while his family looked on in horror, bawling their eyes out. Don't know what got into them, it was his favourite tune, I had survived the accident against the odds and was celebrating this. His father was clearly upset but I explained to him that my intentions were pure, but he still punched me in the nose. Some people are on such a downer and need to cheer the f*** up.

I missed the bit in the video where they did they jitterbug with a skeleton during a rememberance service attended by families of the dead.

Actually I was making an analogy not a direct reference, if you look closely you'll see a bit in the youtube vid where they're pulling happy faces in a train used to pull the bodies of his (not so lucky) brethren to their horrific deaths followed by some ridiculous little dance outside the gates inside which millions of others died slowly and painfully.
Think 'taste', 'appropriateness', 'respectfulness' and 'dignity' and you'll be halfway to seeing what might be wrong with this vid beyond the initial appearance.
[] Me not having escaped the death camp like he did precludes me from commenting on the ridiculousness of his actions. [ ] Being a survivor of Auschwitz allows you to treat the feelings of the relatives of those who didn't with insensitivity.

I think you're being WAY too sensitive - I saw it more as a get it up you to the people that tried to wipe them out in that & other camps. They tried to kill the old boy & he's now celebrating his and his descendants' very existance.

They weren't dancing on others' graves FFS they were celebrating a small victory - as every survivor from those camps is a victory, and in the end, if people don't like it, thankfully they can't kill them for it.

IF they then posted the video to the relatives of some that didn't survive, then OK your argument about taste etc comes into play. They didn't though & instead the press have pressed the 'insult' button.

They've posted a controversial video on Youtube, I'm sure plenty of relatives of non-survivors will see it?


What is the Auschwitz camp now, what is it there for? Why hasn't it been knocked down and replaced? (serious question)

[kinboshi]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

More recently there was Cambodia in the 70s and Rwanda in the 90s where the genocide saw more than a million murdered (not sure on the figures).

[TightPaulFolds]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/melbourne-familys-dance-video-spark-auschwitz-outrage/story-e6frf7jo-1225891329631


"Jewish Holocaust Centre education director Zvi Civins said the video was inappropriate."I feel the best expression of survival and the fact that Jews have survived is to educate people about what happened," he said.

"Auschwitz is the site of over a million deaths and if dance is the best way to express the vitality of the Jewish people despite the holocaust perhaps a better location could have been chosen," he said. "As an educator I think Auschwitz needs to be seen through different lenses than that video clip has the potential of portraying.""

+1

[Colchester Kev]

Tough call imo, while I can see that the message of "You could not detroy me, look at my legacy" is one that needs saying, the choice of venue(s) were misiguided. Mourn at those places for the many lost lives, but celebrate your survival away from them.

[Jon MW]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

More recently there was Cambodia in the 70s and Rwanda in the 90s where the genocide saw more than a million murdered (not sure on the figures).

They're probably the 2 closest and in terms of percentage of the population it could be argued that they're comparable, but just the Jewish loss to the Nazi's was at least triple the number - and the Jewish loss was only about half (? I think) the total, so in terms of numbers it's also arguable that they're not comparable.

[Woodsey]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

More recently there was Cambodia in the 70s and Rwanda in the 90s where the genocide saw more than a million murdered (not sure on the figures).

They're probably the 2 closest and in terms of percentage of the population it could be argued that they're comparable, but just the Jewish loss to the Nazi's was at least triple the number - and the Jewish loss was only about half (? I think) the total, so in terms of numbers it's also arguable that they're not comparable.

LOL, I think any situation your above a Million dead through scenarios like these the argument for who has most is pretty irrelevant tbh..............

[Woodsey]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

Fair enough, but I still don't accept that as a reason why holocaust stories hit the press week in week out to the exclusion of pretty much any other stories of mass murder, many of which are more recent that I alluded to before.

Random story of the day. Met this lady in Cambodia her name is Mrs Deeaw. During the Khmer Rouge years she was married with young two children, her whole family was beaten to death in front of her, they beat them to death because they did not want to waste bullets on them. The only reason she survived was because she was an attractive young lady, the soldiers wanted to keep her to rape for a few weeks. She eventually managed to escape and blend into working the fields some distance away and remained undetected, she would otherwise no doubt be dead now.

A few years later she remarried and had another child with her current husband. She say that she tries not to think about those days and and her daily existence is so difficult she does not really get chance anyway. Pretty sad story really, its these types of stories that I've come across a few times on my travels that irritates me a bit when they get pushed aside because the holocaust is the 'headline' story.

Click to see full-size image.

[RED-DOG]

Sorry can't quote on my phone, but in reply to Jon MW's post, I'm pretty certain that if this has happened in some shithole of a country in africa somewhere this would have been forgotten about already. You also never hear mentioned about the 16 million russians that died in the war, the 6 million chinese, so on a so forth.

I was in cambodia last year and visted one of the mass graves there, it is so recent you could still smell the rotting flesh, those few million have already been forgotten about in the west. I'm just really posing the questio as to why this gets remembered more than other deaths on a huge scale? I'm going to suggest its because of the presence of large jewish communities living in the west? Discuss......

It gets mentioned because a race of people (not the only race of people targeted by the Nazis, but the largest) were systematically rounded up and murdered in order to try and wipe out a race of people living in Western Europe.  That's why it's remembered.  It's not just that such huge numbers were killed during a war - it's that they were exterminated - it was genocide and the goal being to wipe out these people.  Of course, millions of others died during WWII and in other wars - and those deaths are terrible too.  But it's the intent to exterminate races of people that sets the holocaust apart from the others who died during war.

Of course it's not the only case of genocide that should be remembered.  There are other cases, some very recently that tragically are hardly spoken about.  That doesn't mean those who died (and those who survived) the holocaust should also be forgotten.

You mention Africa - there are recent (and even ongoing) cases of genocide that are conveniently overlooked by many in the West (a lot of the blame could/should lie with the media as well here imo).  This shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Yes, pretty much that - lives being lost as a result of fighting in a war are a different issue to a systematic genocide.

There are a number of cases where tens of thousands and even hundreds of thousands of people have been systematically killed by the state (or similar 'almost a state' organisations) and it's true that they are often 'unfairly' overlooked - but the only thing I can think of which can be directly comparable to the holocaust are the Stalinist purges.

Fair enough, but I still don't accept that as a reason why holocaust stories hit the press week in week out to the exclusion of pretty much any other stories of mass murder, many of which are more recent that I alluded to before.

Random story of the day. Met this lady in Cambodia her name is Mrs Deeaw. During the Khmer Rouge years she was married with young two children, her whole family was beaten to death in front of her, they beat them to death because they did not want to waste bullets on them. The only reason she survived was because she was an attractive young lady, the soldiers wanted to keep her to rape for a few weeks. She eventually managed to escape and blend into working the fields some distance away and remained undetected, she would otherwise no doubt be dead now.

A few years later she remarried and had another child with her current husband. She say that she tries not to think about those days and and her daily existence is so difficult she does not really get chance anyway. Pretty sad story really, its these types of stories that I've come across a few times on my travels that irritates me a bit when they get pushed aside because the holocaust is the 'headline' story.

Click to see full-size image.

Great post.

[kinboshi]

Isn't it similar to the way the public's focus and media reports concentrate on the deaths of British troops in say Afghanistan - rather than the deaths of those from other countries - most noticeably, Afghanistan?