Online consolidation thread

[Dino]

It would be interesting to see how ipoker is doing.
Before they kicked us off I played a $1,500 gtd $16.50 entry comp most mornings with 120-140 runners.
I had a look at it yesterday,$500 gtd 42 runners.
Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

[tikay]

Don't forget 888 whose poker numbers were also down.

Party's numbers interestingly appear to be as much a factor of the type of player they are getting as the amount.

New player numbers were up on the same period.

Correct. And Wm Hill, Blue Square, da de da.

"Inside Poker Business", which is a great & very well-informed read, suggests that the Networks are suffering even worse than standalones, as Margins are much thinner, as a result of slicing the cake three ways rather than two.

The (well-deserved) dominance of 'Stars over the market is also something to behold, & I doubt any regulated market would find that acceptable, certainly not the EC. 

The Online Poker landscape will be unrecognisable from now in a year or two.

As to Laddies, there is no way on earth the PLC will allow those declining numbers to continue. They'll find a way to arrest the trend (tough ask that) or sell the thing. Before 12 months are out.

On the upside, Laddies have returned to the Dividend List, happy days! I can't even recall how many I have, it's that long since I had a divi cheque from them.

[tikay]

It would be interesting to see how ipoker is doing.
Before they kicked us off I played a $1,500 gtd $16.50 entry comp most mornings with 120-140 runners.
I had a look at it yesterday,$500 gtd 42 runners.
Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

See my comment on the Network's relative performance in my reply to Alun B. They are hurting big time - or, more correctly, their skins are. They are in some squeeze there.

[DaveShoelace]

Don't forget 888 whose poker numbers were also down.

Party's numbers interestingly appear to be as much a factor of the type of player they are getting as the amount.

New player numbers were up on the same period.

Correct. And Wm Hill, Blue Square, da de da.

"Inside Poker Business", which is a great & very well-informed read, suggests that the Networks are suffering even worse than standalones, as Margins are much thinner, as a result of slicing the cake three ways rather than two.

The (well-deserved) dominance of 'Stars over the market is also something to behold, & I doubt any regulated market would find that acceptable, certainly not the EC. 

The Online Poker landscape will be unrecognisable from now in a year or two.

As to Laddies, there is no way on earth the PLC will allow those declining numbers to continue. They'll find a way to arrest the trend (tough ask that) or sell the thing. Before 12 months are out.

On the upside, Laddies have returned to the Dividend List, happy days! I can't even recall how many I have, it's that long since I had a divi cheque from them.

This

Reckon we are going to see some major players die in the next two years and some others emerge and take over the industry.

Personal predictions are that Party and PKR will enter the US market and be huge, as will a facebook based poker site/app that launches a real money site. Rakeback and loyalty programmes will probably not be as generous as they once were across the board.

Blondepoker will get picked up by the BBC soap opera script department imo

[tikay]

Don't forget 888 whose poker numbers were also down.

Party's numbers interestingly appear to be as much a factor of the type of player they are getting as the amount.

New player numbers were up on the same period.

Correct. And Wm Hill, Blue Square, da de da.

"Inside Poker Business", which is a great & very well-informed read, suggests that the Networks are suffering even worse than standalones, as Margins are much thinner, as a result of slicing the cake three ways rather than two.

The (well-deserved) dominance of 'Stars over the market is also something to behold, & I doubt any regulated market would find that acceptable, certainly not the EC. 

The Online Poker landscape will be unrecognisable from now in a year or two.

As to Laddies, there is no way on earth the PLC will allow those declining numbers to continue. They'll find a way to arrest the trend (tough ask that) or sell the thing. Before 12 months are out.

On the upside, Laddies have returned to the Dividend List, happy days! I can't even recall how many I have, it's that long since I had a divi cheque from them.

This

Reckon we are going to see some major players die in the next two years and some others emerge and take over the industry.

Personal predictions are that Party and PKR will enter the US market and be huge, as will a facebook based poker site/app that launches a real money site. Rakeback and loyalty programmes will probably not be as generous as they once were across the board.

Blondepoker will get picked up by the BBC soap opera script department imo

Harrahs/WSOP will be the first IMO, their play money app beng the trojan horse.

[AlunB]

Don't forget 888 whose poker numbers were also down.

Party's numbers interestingly appear to be as much a factor of the type of player they are getting as the amount.

New player numbers were up on the same period.

Correct. And Wm Hill, Blue Square, da de da.

"Inside Poker Business", which is a great & very well-informed read, suggests that the Networks are suffering even worse than standalones, as Margins are much thinner, as a result of slicing the cake three ways rather than two.

The (well-deserved) dominance of 'Stars over the market is also something to behold, & I doubt any regulated market would find that acceptable, certainly not the EC. 

The Online Poker landscape will be unrecognisable from now in a year or two.

As to Laddies, there is no way on earth the PLC will allow those declining numbers to continue. They'll find a way to arrest the trend (tough ask that) or sell the thing. Before 12 months are out.

On the upside, Laddies have returned to the Dividend List, happy days! I can't even recall how many I have, it's that long since I had a divi cheque from them.

Thank you, very kind of you to say so.

Ladbrokes has been trying to arrest the decline for years now. It's not a recent thing at all.

The online poker landscape depends massively on the shape of regulation both within Europe and in the US. If Germany goes the way of France liquidity in the dot com world will be hit hard for example.

As to Stars, I give you Tesco.

[tikay]

Don't forget 888 whose poker numbers were also down.

Party's numbers interestingly appear to be as much a factor of the type of player they are getting as the amount.

New player numbers were up on the same period.

Correct. And Wm Hill, Blue Square, da de da.

"Inside Poker Business", which is a great & very well-informed read, suggests that the Networks are suffering even worse than standalones, as Margins are much thinner, as a result of slicing the cake three ways rather than two.

The (well-deserved) dominance of 'Stars over the market is also something to behold, & I doubt any regulated market would find that acceptable, certainly not the EC. 

The Online Poker landscape will be unrecognisable from now in a year or two.

As to Laddies, there is no way on earth the PLC will allow those declining numbers to continue. They'll find a way to arrest the trend (tough ask that) or sell the thing. Before 12 months are out.

On the upside, Laddies have returned to the Dividend List, happy days! I can't even recall how many I have, it's that long since I had a divi cheque from them.

Thank you, very kind of you to say so.

Ladbrokes has been trying to arrest the decline for years now. It's not a recent thing at all.

The online poker landscape depends massively on the shape of regulation both within Europe and in the US. If Germany goes the way of France liquidity in the dot com world will be hit hard for example.

As to Stars, I give you Tesco.

Ooh, I quite forget you are the Publisher of "Inside Poker Business"! It's the find of the year for me, mag-wise, & I've asked Suit-City next door to sort me out  a subscription for it. Depressing reading at the moment - I really never realised quite how severe the decline was - but a must-read.

Laddies - yes, it's a long-term decline, but they have new Management, & I don't see them allowing the decline to continue further - it just can't, it's harming the brand, which is a very fine brand. Of which Online Poker is a very small part.

As to 'Stars & Tesco. Tesco has about 35% (I think) of the UK Grocery Market, which is regulated, & has barely put a foot wrong in the last 20 years. 'Stars, largely un-regulated, are equally awesome, but remind me what % of the world's total Online poker market they have?*

* I note that they announced WCOOP numbers today. The Guarantees exceed $50 million!

[AlunB]

Just the editor. Nothing as grand as publisher. Thanks very much for the positive feedback though, and it's great to hear you like it. PM me your address and I will get you added to the free list.

Agreed on Ladbrokes on all points. The new CEO has announced he wants Ladbrokes to have 'e excellence' so expect a greater focus on the online part of the business. Rebuilding a poker business though is no easy challenge in this market.

Point taken on Stars. Although it's hard to say exactly what its market share is, based on pokerscout it's still less than 50%. I was also alluding to how Tesco's seemingly runaway market dominance eventually started to run out of steam.

[tikay]

Just the editor. Nothing as grand as publisher. Thanks very much for the positive feedback though, and it's great to hear you like it. PM me your address and I will get you added to the free list.

Agreed on Ladbrokes on all points. The new CEO has announced he wants Ladbrokes to have 'e excellence' so expect a greater focus on the online part of the business. Rebuilding a poker business though is no easy challenge in this market.

Point taken on Stars. Although it's hard to say exactly what its market share is, based on pokerscout it's still less than 50%. I was also alluding to how Tesco's seemingly runaway market dominance eventually started to run out of steam.

Thanks - PM on way!

I'm not sure Tesco has run out of steam, though I agree it's running out of headroom, & regulatory issues will stunt further UK growth. Stars may run out of steam, too, but without a shadow of doubt, many rooms - I'd say the majority - will be out of business, (more so the Networked Skins & even networks) or consolidated - long before that happens. And even 'Stars are starting to have to address regulation - note the Italian model, now France, Gemany soon.......

The odd thing is that Stars won't need to buy any/many Rooms, there would be little point, as almost everyone has a Stars account. Why buy Accounts you already have?! And not many rooms can hold a light to Stars Marketing, Promos, & general excellence.

[DaveShoelace]

Just the editor. Nothing as grand as publisher. Thanks very much for the positive feedback though, and it's great to hear you like it. PM me your address and I will get you added to the free list.

Agreed on Ladbrokes on all points. The new CEO has announced he wants Ladbrokes to have 'e excellence' so expect a greater focus on the online part of the business. Rebuilding a poker business though is no easy challenge in this market.

Point taken on Stars. Although it's hard to say exactly what its market share is, based on pokerscout it's still less than 50%. I was also alluding to how Tesco's seemingly runaway market dominance eventually started to run out of steam.

Thanks - PM on way!

I'm not sure Tesco has run out of steam, though I agree it's running out of headroom, & regulatory issues will stunt further UK growth. Stars may run out of steam, too, but without a shadow of doubt, many rooms - I'd say the majority - will be out of business, (more so the Networked Skins & even networks) or consolidated - long before that happens. And even 'Stars are starting to have to address regulation - note the Italian model, now France, Gemany soon.......

The odd thing is that Stars won't need to buy any/many Rooms, there would be little point, as almost everyone has a Stars account. Why buy Accounts you already have?! And not many rooms can hold a light to Stars Marketing, Promos, & general excellence.

Yep, this is probably one of the reasons why the average rake at Party has gone down over the last few years so dramatically, people try new rooms, then realise they are better off at Pokerstars. So many times I have seen a new room and said 'wow this room is soft' or 'wow the rakeback here is awesome' then a couple of weeks later I am back playing on Stars and Tilt.

[mondatoo]

Played on Ladbrokes before there a joke tbh the software is horrendous,Stars and Tilt will own the world soon enough I'd guess

[TightEnd]

Playtech, the Israeli-based owner of the iPoker network, saw poker revenue decline 8 percent to €15.8 million in the first half of 2010 compared to the same period of 2009 when it was €17.3 million.

The most recent figure is also down 5 percent on the previous six months, July to December 2009, when it stood at €16.6 million.

Poker makes up 18 percent of Playtech’s gross income compared to 56 percent for casino, 5 pecent bingo, William Hill Online 17 percent and other 4 percent.

The company, which also operates casino and bingo products, saw gross income up 31 percent to €87.9 million.

[DaveShoelace]

Playtech, the Israeli-based owner of the iPoker network, saw poker revenue decline 8 percent to €15.8 million in the first half of 2010 compared to the same period of 2009 when it was €17.3 million.

The most recent figure is also down 5 percent on the previous six months, July to December 2009, when it stood at €16.6 million.

Poker makes up 18 percent of Playtech’s gross income compared to 56 percent for casino, 5 pecent bingo, William Hill Online 17 percent and other 4 percent.

The company, which also operates casino and bingo products, saw gross income up 31 percent to €87.9 million.

wow, Blonde leaving hit them hard

[TightEnd]

Hit us worse, lol.


Nice to know the pain is shared though

[ACE2M]

Stars are genius. They figured out the right type of customer to attract. Punters who are happy to do $100 - $500 a month and win sometimes and aren't bothered about rakeback, they just want a good game with big prizes. Every one else can go after the players chasing a living and have their games suffocated.