Strategy question: Raggy Aces

[TightEnd]

Some opinions sought please:

In the early/mid stages of freezeout tournaments with sensible starting chips and clock how do you try to play, if at all, Ace rag ( say A9 or below )offsuit from early/mid position?

I'm assuming you are no worse than averagely stacked

Do you throw them away because of poor position?

Do you limp, accepting you are folding to raises usually?

Do you mix it up?

I ask because I am not comfortable that I have a strategy that works


a) Limping and not calling a raise seems just to leak chips
b) If you see a cheap flop and hit your A you often have no idea where you are
c) Raising out of position is too much
d) Folding regardless appears too tight

I realise this over-simplifies the situation (but don't want to write war and peace), and it depends on the texture of your table and the players you are playing.

Finally, do you in your own mind distinguish between A with 9,8,7,6 versus A with 5,4,3,2 because of the latters potential to hit/develop into a wheel on lowish flops?

Thanks
     

[tikay]

Well I am the last person you need poker advice from, but like all poker questions, the answer is "it depends".

But, assuming it's a full table, I bin 'em. As you say, what happens if you hit the damn thing? - you R, get RR'd, & have to let it go.

But my particular weakness (or one of them....) is suited Aces, no matter how small. I generally call with them in any position if there has been no action. But I only persevere in the event of catching 2 pair, or 4 to the flush on the flop. I don't play them as an A, even if an A hits the board.

[Newportlad]

I tend to agree with Tikay

Fold anything from A9 downwards in early to mid position.   Call with suited A if blind has not been raised drastically.

[wsopin05]

I take David's advice, I don't play A rag until there are 6 or less players at the table, but there are always exxceptions

Here is a hand I just played here in vegas in the mega satelite for the WSOP main event.

About 29 players left from 103, top 9 get a seat in main event, I played the folling hand against Mel Judah:

I raised in late position w/ , (stealing), Mel was only caller from the button. Flop was As , I checked and Mel gave me a free card. Turn was giving me 2 pair, I checked, Mel bet half the pot, I called, River was , I bet half the pot, Mel pushed, I win and it ended up getting my seat for me. (Mel Judah is an ass )

I heard Mel telling the story the next day about the terrible player that knocked him out, I think it was more like a big name playing a bad hand badly, It was very funny to hear this Mel Judah guy tell the story the next day

The point I am making is that I see way more trouble than it is worth, how huch are you going to make w/ an A on the board anyway I would rather play my 4/7 ( I KNOW, I KNOW)and take all the chips when I hit it

Tikay, I hope I am over my A---- suited, I use to play them always     

[stewart]

depending how far gone you are in the tourneyment is a big factor of cause,

if early on ill call small rag aces but not a6/10 in any postion during the mid-point of the tourney ill raise aj/aq/ak/a2/a4 only if i have postion, if there has been a raise i would normally release or call and play a flop (agaist certin player RR),

in the latter stages of the tourneyment when the smell of money is comming, i would lossen up a bit and re-reaise with virtually any ace, apart from a6-a10 ( the reason i dont play thease is because the chances of winning are smaller, and u have less ways to win if u do end up all-in )

if its a small comp with rebuys :
i would virtually not play any hand at all, if there was no value in doing it, i.e 4 pepole all-in before u i would call with 56 suited as long as those players were playing loseish,

in a freezeout as you suggest
in the early/mid stages i would adpot my statagey the same as if it was a small local comp after rebuys

the main thing i would say is you dont get chips by folding, and u dont win tourneyments without luck, just dont call every rag ace or re-raise with every ak because u carnt win them all!!

the suit question comes into alot though, if you have POSITION A-2-3-4-5 A-J-Q-K suited only matters in the lower aces, the larger aces play themselves basicly as long as if u do have AJ/AQ u have the ablity to realase even if the flop looks good A 4 9 rainbow, sometimes it is better to let them just have that one and waite for a better spot in the revese sence if you hit your kicker i.e J 4 9 / Q 4 9 you have to be equally pre-preaid to realse if u raise and get RR'd

anyway enough from me im no pro lol, i only play salford/blackpool/walsall/luton/newcastle when there is a good game on and only as a kind of hobby, so thats just what i have been picked up or learnt the hard way

hope it helps! (doubt it will though lol)
stu

[stewart]

(quote)
I raised in late position w/ , (stealing), Mel was only caller from the button. Flop was As , I checked and Mel gave me a free card. Turn was giving me 2 pair, I checked, Mel bet half the pot, I called, River was , I bet half the pot, Mel pushed, I win and it ended up getting my seat for me. (Mel Judah is an ass )

stealing from what postion? if u checked to mel on the flop? was it BB v SB?  and mel prob had A rag and couldnt realise like my prevoius post

gl in the main event !! i wont be able to play till next year (stupid yanky age laws)

[snoopy1239]

People are using the phrase A9 and below. What do people think about AT?

[RED-DOG]

its slightly worse than AJ

[tikay]

Red-Dog, aka Mastermind, at his most perceptive........

[RED-DOG]

its slightly worse than AJ

sorry, Im having a bad night

[ifm]

I try to limp with rag aces everytime, except on a passive table (raise raise raise). If i only hit the ace i am VERY wary, and will fold 9/10 times to a raise/reraise. Basically i'm looking for 2 pair or nothing.
A10 is a horrible hand without a straight opportunity it's useless, how many folks do you see busted with it?
BTW Doyle Brunson hates AQ with a passion, says it's awful cuz too many hands can beat it........but who's he anyway 
Ian

[wsopin05]

I was 2nd from button, I checked because of the A, but Mel checked because he had A rag and didnt want to get caught because you must play A rag carefully. I dont want to play a hand that the best outcome is that I have to be carefull w/ it. Make sense???

The point is I do not think A rag is a hand that can make you money, you may as well play anything, the only way to make a big score is to flop the 2 pair, I won't play it, today in the 6 handed event I had A rag first 3 hands, tried to limp and I was RR all 3 tomes, it is just a bad hand, but it is a hand you must deal with. I would like alot more talk about this, I am not saying I am right, it is just the way I play it now w/ the experiences I have to draw from.

If you play it you may win some small potts, I want to play when I can win big potts

[Bongo]

I was 2nd from button, I checked because of the A, but Mel checked because he had A rag and didnt want to get caught because you must play A rag carefully. I dont want to play a hand that the best outcome is that I have to be carefull w/ it. Make sense???

Maybe he was trying to trap you into thinking he didn't have the A?