one for the 45man sng pros!

[Nico29]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[Nico29]

he's 2.4x'd it.

He may be tight but what's tight in this day and age? In the CO are you saying he folds JTs - QK, 22-44, A7s - AT

The ranges above he could easily raise fold if hes a tight player

I very much doubt his range is this wide

I think this range is totally standard. Otherwise he is just folding away free chips to accumulate from these spots in l8 pos spots. Id actually expect in some cases the range to be a little wider, but then i guess that wld allow the reads to come into play if he was a super lag pre.

[doubleup]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[  ] hijack is late position

[  ] we have a reasonable holding if called

[  ] we have fold equity if he is opening 5%*


*he almost def isnt but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that he might be

If your strategy is fk it I'm the daddy and I'm 3 betting any two if given the chance then ok, but don't pretend it's anything more sophisticated than that.

[Sack it off]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[  ] hijack is late position

[  ] we have a reasonable holding if called

[  ] we have fold equity if he is opening 5%*


*he almost def isnt but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that he might be

If your strategy is fk it I'm the daddy and I'm 3 betting any two if given the chance then ok, but don't pretend it's anything more sophisticated than that.

Its the CO not hijack

[doubleup]

HIJACK           Seat 5: nuetthie (9,138)
CUTOFF          Seat 6: cozzyorlando (9,500)
BUTTON        Seat 7: golopop (7,745)
SMALL BLIND  Seat 8: sovietsong (17,117)

[Nico29]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[  ] hijack is late position

[  ] we have a reasonable holding if called

[  ] we have fold equity if he is opening 5%*


*he almost def isnt but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that he might be

If your strategy is fk it I'm the daddy and I'm 3 betting any two if given the chance then ok, but don't pretend it's anything more sophisticated than that.

Ok fairish point that the hj isn't l8 pos here.

You give way too much credit to ppl with their opening ranges, which sounds good to me as i make money from such nitty strats.

Our holding is certainly not unreasonable here and please go ahead and wait for yr aces.

Yes he might be opening 5%, he might also be opening 25%, 50%, 100%.

Absolute ridic comment to suggest that because we are jamming effectively 19x here that we are 3betting atc and that having a strat of 3betting 5's because, a)-we have fe, and b)- because our hand isn't a huge dog to his opening range-that this is unsophisicated.

Also remember that we shld be pressing the shorter stacks with our chipcount here, lets make him fold 66 and random ocards.

Sorry if my tone sounds harsh, just felt yrs did too.

[Sack it off]

I make it hijack opened and we are SB.

How many left? This the FT or 2 tables out? Assuming we have 15/16 left?

hero is sb
villain is co

I'm going off what I'm told by the OP

[doubleup]

I make it hijack opened and we are SB.

How many left? This the FT or 2 tables out? Assuming we have 15/16 left?

hero is sb
villain is co

I'm going off what I'm told by the OP

yeah he told ftp he had a squint and they made special hand histories for him to use in replayers

[doubleup]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[  ] hijack is late position

[  ] we have a reasonable holding if called

[  ] we have fold equity if he is opening 5%*


*he almost def isnt but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that he might be

If your strategy is fk it I'm the daddy and I'm 3 betting any two if given the chance then ok, but don't pretend it's anything more sophisticated than that.

Ok fairish point that the hj isn't l8 pos here.

You give way too much credit to ppl with their opening ranges, which sounds good to me as i make money from such nitty strats.

Our holding is certainly not unreasonable here and please go ahead and wait for yr aces.

Yes he might be opening 5%, he might also be opening 25%, 50%, 100%.

Absolute ridic comment to suggest that because we are jamming effectively 19x here that we are 3betting atc and that having a strat of 3betting 5's because, a)-we have fe, and b)- because our hand isn't a huge dog to his opening range-that this is unsophisicated.

Also remember that we shld be pressing the shorter stacks with our chipcount here, lets make him fold 66 and random ocards.

Sorry if my tone sounds harsh, just felt yrs did too.

The value of your play is entirely in fold equity as you are losing substantially when called (either when the bb has a monster or by the original raiser) so there really isnt a lot of difference between 55 and atc.

[Nico29]

Read required to shove here

Default is to fold

My read is he has opened from late pos, we have a reasonable holding with fold equity.

I gen think default folding is too nitty in these structures.

[  ] hijack is late position

[  ] we have a reasonable holding if called

[  ] we have fold equity if he is opening 5%*


*he almost def isnt but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that he might be

If your strategy is fk it I'm the daddy and I'm 3 betting any two if given the chance then ok, but don't pretend it's anything more sophisticated than that.

Ok fairish point that the hj isn't l8 pos here.

You give way too much credit to ppl with their opening ranges, which sounds good to me as i make money from such nitty strats.

Our holding is certainly not unreasonable here and please go ahead and wait for yr aces.

Yes he might be opening 5%, he might also be opening 25%, 50%, 100%.

Absolute ridic comment to suggest that because we are jamming effectively 19x here that we are 3betting atc and that having a strat of 3betting 5's because, a)-we have fe, and b)- because our hand isn't a huge dog to his opening range-that this is unsophisicated.

Also remember that we shld be pressing the shorter stacks with our chipcount here, lets make him fold 66 and random ocards.

Sorry if my tone sounds harsh, just felt yrs did too.

The value of your play is entirely in fold equity as you are losing substantially when called (either when the bb has a monster or by the original raiser) so there really isnt a lot of difference between 55 and atc.

Just stove 55 v his range, then stove atc v his range and then come back on here and prove yr point.

[doubleup]

Just stove 55 v his range, then stove atc v his range and then come back on here and prove yr point.

lol if his calling range is 88+,AJs+,KQs,AKo - you are better off with atc

[Nico29]

I just did this btw and against the range i'd assign him, which is any pp, j10std+a7) atc is 36%, 55 is 47%

Against a nittier range of 66+ a10+ kqo+ atc is 32% and 55 is 39%

Hardly the same is it?

Btw to suggest he is opening only 5% is clearly ridic imo, therefore his range is only 1010+ aq+

Even the nittiest of nits has to open wider here.

[Nico29]

Just stove 55 v his range, then stove atc v his range and then come back on here and prove yr point.

lol if his calling range is 88+,AJs+,KQs,AKo - you are better off with atc

So now u r changing the boundries from what his opening range is to now what his calling range is??? lol

ATC is 28% against yr wonderfully imagined range, nice to know u give peeps so much respect from the hj.

55 is 35%, so you sir are wrong!

[doubleup]

sigh

his opening range isn't what you should be considering, it is his calling range - which is prob between 5% and 10% depending on his opening range.


ps stopped stove b4 it finished so your figures are right - but the point is still valid ie you are in deep sh1te against his calling range

[Nico29]

sigh

his opening range isn't what you should be considering, it is his calling range - which is prob between 5% and 10% depending on his opening range.

Larger sigh.

You just said atc is in better shape here than 55 against a range of 88+

Sigh.

Stove has just proved you are incorrect, be nice if u aknowledged this tbh.

You now say we shouldn't be considering his opening range??

What drivel, this is the whole point of the thread imo. What % of hands is he opening here that will fold to a shove, whilst also considering what shape we will be in if called, stove has proved mine and disproved yr atc points here.

Yes we must also consider his calling range, but imo the opening range is far more important here, the calling range is only relevant in regards to what percentage/range of hands he is opening with and thus will call with.

Imo you are trying to differentiate between his calling range and opening range when the nitty range u assign to his open sees no possible fe to our shove, obv he cant rse fold 88+. I give him a wider range and therefore believe the 2 are different.
 
Obviously if we assume every midish pos open is 88+ we wll never shove 55 here, gg on winning in these games with those assumptions.


I understand where those such as james atkin are coming from here, who i bow to in terms of experience in these games, about some kind of read being vital here, v a reg we might insta fold, but against a random i really think this is a clear shove, especially with our stack size.