Really Undecided

[Q8Holds]

Hand from level 3 APAT Day1

Average stack 10k
Starting stack 10k
Blinds 75/150


Me:12k
Villain:10k

Villain; Has played 2hands in the previous 2 levels and half of this one [nearly 2hours of play] Hes in the cut off but hasn't used position at all and only played his hands.

Loose weak player in mid position makes it 450 Call by villain i also smooth on the button with 77.

Flop;
 

Check , Check i make it 450, i realise i probably should of made it more 600-700. Raiser folds Cutoff calls ?!?!?!?!?!

Turn   

Check i make it 600 Villian re raises 2200.

I ponder....

j9 - i dont think hes calling with it preflop even without a raise.

QQ- Not smoothing preflop as the 2 blinds are fairly loose and the raiser is very loose so will get a call from re raise.

1010- Possible smooth preflop but im sure he raises or re raises on this board to protect a potentially vulnerable hand

AQ- Same as 1010 but i think a good possibility

Q10- Maybe but not sure he would call a raise preflop with it, but certainly makes sense re raising on the turn with a view to folding if turn comes dangerous?

AK of spades 95% sure he re raises preflop

AA/KK So sure he raises the flop even if he does smooth preflop as it is a really dangerous flop

Flush draw; not the type to re raise with it and not many options


Anyway.. I decide to smooth his 2200 and call a raise of similar stature on the river


River @@@@@@@@ Villian bets out 3k which would leave me around the 5k mark if i call but that still leaves me with 33bs and 45min levels,  pots 11k with 3k to call it gives me a huge advantage... I call opinions

ive played alot of cash the last month and im wondering if this has affected my decision making in tournaments.

[cambridgealex]

flop bet is far too small, pot is 450*3 + 150 +75 = 1575. I'd bet 800-900.

as for the turn raise, need more info on villain i think. is he a player who could get impatient with folding all the time, and see's the loose guy is raising agian, and decides its time to peel with QT,J9s etc? you imply he's a nit who just plays good hands and doesnt know about position etc. these type of players tend to bet QT, TT when its checked to them by the pf raiser on this board. i dont think you can rule out QQ however, these guys love to smooth laggy players' opens with QQ in position. He won't have considered the blinds at all. he has a queen and a queen. he might check QQ to you, hoping you'd bet. What is your table image?

Need more info really about this guy (if he hasnt played many hands, just describe him etc). By the sounds of him though, he is raising you on the turn with mostly sets, straights and QT. maybe you need to forget about what else he did in the hand and just say, how often am I good here when he raises me on the turn? its a confusing one though, can see why he had you befuddled.

couldn't he call your small flop bet with 88?

[DMorgan]

The pot is 1575. If you're gunna lead then make it at least 1k. Your turn lead is also ridiculously small. With your flop betsize the pot is 2475, why would you bet less than 25% of the pot with such a strong hand? He likes his hand on the flop, most likely weighted towards draws given the flop texture so make him pay. This is APAT so I can't see people folding nut flush draws very often so make him pay. Bet ~1800.

His turn check raise is really gross 'cos I'd only really expect to see really nutsy hands in this spot but TT is the only one that really makes any sense.

On the turn you're getting 2.4 to 1 to call so you need ~29% equity to make the call. You have 10 outs to make a boat or quads but not sure how many of those are gunna be good.

Really gross spot but if he's really tight then I guess we could fold the river? Or if he's really really tight fold the turn? I dunno. You just make it really difficult for yourself by betting these really small numbers 'cos it looks so weak that you leave yourself open to being bluff raised a lot and then a really tight player does it its hard not to give them credit and you end up folding the best hand sometimes.

I probably call turn fold river but not really happy with that line

[piestack]

what on earth is there to think about. no matter how you've played this hand, the only analysis you need to do is:
he's a massive nit. he's checkraising the turn. i don't have the nuts. i fold.

[NigDawG]

lol shove river

[Q8Holds]

lol shove river

Was very tempted as the raise on the turn to me also felt a bit weak as it was a "i dont want you to call but im not willing to stick alot in" just the feeling i got at the time... I know the bet sizes on the flop and turn were poor, and my immediate reaction when thinking about the hand was that. I only flatted the turn with a view to call/checking river. But thought about raising the river but i feel my game best suits a 3-5k stack.

Ty for feedback i know flop/turn bets were disgusting ;') He had  i called the river went down to 4-5k crushed the table for the next hour to get to 14k without seeing a river then donked my chips off to someone who couldnt pass (:

[psustudent]

yea same as people said, flop/turn betsizing should be more.

turn raise is weird but I will call turn in case he just got tired of folding wanted to make a move. maybe a scare card will come and he will check river and you can go to showdown. When he does cr turn given his image, I put him on QQ/TT or random move and will look up once just to "keep him honest"

If he bets river on the spade, I almost snap fold given his image description. He's just not the type to suddenly get aggro and cr turn AND fire river with thin value hands like AQ etc on that board.

So yea you do get ridic odds but Id still fold river esp. if hes betting into you on spade river as more hands in his range got there. If it is a non spade blank, you could justify calling slighty more.

Id refrain from shoving river as given his image, you really cant get away with it, plus by betting flop, youre really not repping a backdoor flush. I might try it against some other somewhat loose players or if villain check called twice but once this type of villain cr turn and bets river, you really cant get away with bluff river shove to make it profitable longterm.

[AlexMartin]

what on earth is there to think about. no matter how you've played this hand, the only analysis you need to do is:
he's a massive nit. he's checkraising the turn. i don't have the nuts. i fold.

+1, v hard to learn how to fold though imo.

[pleno1]

what on earth is there to think about. no matter how you've played this hand, the only analysis you need to do is:
he's a massive nit. he's checkraising the turn. i don't have the nuts. i fold.

+1, v hard to learn how to fold though imo.

esp live