Final table with Jacks

[MC]

Villain is someone we have a large sample of hands on but don't recognise, though his stats are decent. Sharkscoped him for the first time before the final table and it turns out he's a marginal winner in these games. His winrate puts him close to being a bad reg, and bad regs typically play too tight.

We noticed that villain amassed his chip-stack with two premium hands just before the final table, and haven't seen him getting particularly frisky. I'm not sure how the preflop action went in those hands though (relating to his min raise in this hand).

This is a $3R 180-man Final Table. We are 2nd in chips, villain is chip leader.

PokerStars Game #49281196921: Tournament #308877975, $3.00+$0.30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XX (3500/7000) - 2010/09/07 21:40:20 WET [2010/09/07 16:40:20 ET]
Table '308877975 19' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: chevichile (226288 in chips)
Seat 3: X_DISAA_X (116062 in chips)
Seat 4: big walter23 (57200 in chips)
Seat 5: mumpfl (56832 in chips)
Seat 6: epitomised (194501 in chips)
Seat 7: Jim Lim Jim (75742 in chips)
Seat 8: pokerguru69 (71200 in chips)
Seat 9: Pushloop (35675 in chips)
chevichile: posts the ante 700
X_DISAA_X: posts the ante 700
big walter23: posts the ante 700
mumpfl: posts the ante 700
epitomised: posts the ante 700
Jim Lim Jim: posts the ante 700
pokerguru69: posts the ante 700
Pushloop: posts the ante 700
epitomised: posts small blind 3500
Jim Lim Jim: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to epitomised [ ]
pokerguru69: folds
Pushloop: folds
chevichile: raises 7000 to 14000
X_DISAA_X: folds
big walter23: folds
mumpfl: folds
epitomised:

[pleno1]

43875 and call i think.

[outragous76]

39666 and snap a shove

[Longy]

Meh, if we get 4bet on a final by a weak tight villain are we really in good shape?

I think I like flatting and keeping his range wide, then play some pokerz. Would deffo prefer if we were in position though. Basically it sucks with stacks sizes and some ICM implications.

[EvilPie]

I like to tank a little bit and then flat hoping to induce a shove from Mr 10bb in the big blind.

If he doesn't ship we have the option of playing a bit of poker on the flop against an assumed weak tight where even oop I fancy our chances.

[psustudent]

yea call seems about right given stacks. if mostly every1 was deeper 3bet/f obv.

if u did decide to 3bet id fold to a 4bet given villain desp. + icm implications

this type of villain is not 4bet shoving worse esp. given table stacks.

[outragous76]

3 bet folding is just terrible

[MC]

3 bet folding is just terrible

I don't see why. I def think that's an option. I think I like the calling line best though.

I think I took the 2nd worst line. Wp me.

[outragous76]

3 bet folding is just terrible

I don't see why. I def think that's an option. I think I like the calling line best though.

I think I took the 2nd worst line. Wp me.

because you are turning a premium into a bluff!

[MC]

3 bet folding is just terrible

I don't see why. I def think that's an option. I think I like the calling line best though.

I think I took the 2nd worst line. Wp me.

because you are turning a premium into a bluff!

Fair point.

[34sooted5betshove]

really sick spot actually i suck but Id prob flat pre, wouldnt really wanna play to big of a pot early on in final table with chipleader hoping someone repops he folds you snap.!

[MC]

really sick spot actually i suck but Id prob flat pre, wouldnt really wanna play to big of a pot early on in final table with chipleader hoping someone repops he folds you snap.!

I think expecting the one player who is left to act to shove is a little optimistic, especially when he'd be shoving into the 2 guys with chips

Also, shouldn't the raiser should be jamming over any squeeze with any decent holding?

[Murph1984]

This is actually a pretty fascinating spot.

Do the 3r 180's use the same payout structure as the 2's and 12's?

While i'm normally not a fan of turning premiums into bluffs,in this case given stack sizes and tendencies of the villain I think 3bet/calling is a far worse play than 3bet/folding.

Flatting would be the perfect option if we weren't OOP obviously,as it is it could get awkward.

Given villains tendancies 3betting might be the best option,his player type doesn't seem likely to flat us with better than JJ imo so a 3bet to 31k or so should result in him basically turning his hand face-up.

[outragous76]

seriously guys - this is a $12 180 man

he could get them in with 22 - let alone the fact he is the CL and has more reason to make the play with a wider range

James buddy - I think you are over thinking this one. I presume he had you crushed after you jammed - but honestly  - never folding this

Besdies if it come 2 5 7 r then are you still not going bust?

[MC]

Murph - I'm pretty sure the payout structure is the same

Guy - I think you're underestimating the situation. Okay so donkos in a $3R final table are gonna be exploitable, but competant regs, even if they aren't the biggest winners, aren't ever going to be donking off their chips in this delicate ICM spot. He certainly never gets in in with deuces.

I'm willing to go broke with Jacks here, which is why I jammed, but it's def an overjam and I think it's a bad play because of the ICM implications. I definitely think the alternatives of flat calling pre and 3bet folding are better options.

Something like...
1) 3bet fold
2) Call
3) 3b call
4) Shove
5) Fold

I think 3bet folding is fine against this villain cos I feel like he's incapable of jamming light...