Really Fun Spot

[SuuPRlim]

Playing Live (again zzzzzzzzzzz)

£2/£5


I open  from MP to £25 (playing about £550) and get flatted by a huge italian fish in the Hijack (playing about £1k), and from another Reg on the Btn playing £3k+

never really seen the italian before, but he is playing really wierd and pretty bad. Btn is a good friend of mine and really good.

Flop comes  I chk/Hijack chks/Btn chks

Turn is  and I lead for £60, Hijack calls, Btn raises to £245

Now other stuff going on here, I thought when Hijack called that he had a Q virtually all the time, and as Btn is really good and he is sat next to him I thought he probably knew this as well....also I know him to be pretty clever with bet-sizing.

if we match the £245 we have £280 behind exactly. Pot currently stands at £450 odd.

Thoughts?

[pleno1]

bet flop

[hettonmobster]

bet flop

yup pretty much don't understand your logic to checking the flop back mate?

[neverbluff67]

Was this last night Dave?


i dont hate checking the flop but i dont see anything we can do besides fold on the turn..

[pleno1]

Was this last night Dave?


i dont hate checking the flop but i dont see anything we can do besides fold on the turn..

prob c/f too.

[SuuPRlim]

yeah. folding turn ftw im sure here.

sigh

[DungBeetle]

If your reads are correct:

Italian man has Queen
Italian man plays bad
Italian man isn't folding

??

[SuuPRlim]

If your reads are correct:

Italian man has Queen
Italian man plays bad
Italian man isn't folding

??

No I was sure the Italian WOULD fold a queen, which is what made me really swing for a shove in this exact spot. It was a pretty solid read I had at the time.
I was swinging to the conclusion that,
a) Btn will know I know that Italian has a Queen
b) Btn has a feeling Italian will fold/fold when he shoves the river (pot set up nicely for river shove)
c) I would not be able to continue in this spot with virtually anything in my range

Supposing he has KJ/diamonds/a 10x hand himself he could see it as an awesome spot to semi bluff

however after the hand I started to think, that given the italian has a queen, there is probs MUCH more value in this spot for him to peel behind virtually everything for value and try get a big call from the Italian on the river should he make his hand/if he already has it, i.e Qx/2p

There is also thoguhts that Btn has picked up on the fact the Italian has a queen, but unlike me at the time doesnt think he is folding, in which case he just raises everything for value and sets the pot up for a shove on the end which he expects to get called

the last point is by far most likely IMO but i think its a closer call than it appears, when we consider these points. Pretty cool Spot imo

[SuuPRlim]

If your reads are correct:

Italian man has Queen
Italian man plays bad
Italian man isn't folding

??

No I was sure the Italian WOULD fold a queen, which is what made me really swing for a shove in this exact spot. It was a pretty solid read I had at the time.
I was swinging to the conclusion that,
a) Btn will know I know that Italian has a Queen
b) Btn has a feeling Italian will fold/fold when he shoves the river (pot set up nicely for river shove)
c) I would not be able to continue in this spot with virtually anything in my range

Supposing he has KJ/diamonds/a 10x hand himself he could see it as an awesome spot to semi bluff

however after the hand I started to think, that given the italian has a queen, there is probs MUCH more value in this spot for him to peel behind virtually everything for value and try get a big call from the Italian on the river should he make his hand/if he already has it, i.e Qx/2p

There is also thoguhts that Btn has picked up on the fact the Italian has a queen, but unlike me at the time doesnt think he is folding, in which case he just raises everything for value and sets the pot up for a shove on the end which he expects to get called

the last point is by far most likely IMO but i think its a closer call than it appears, when we consider these points. Pretty cool Spot imo

As it played I shoved, Italian Tanks and folds a Q (so he said after) and Btn calls with QT, least I had some outs....oh no wait....

[DMorgan]

Not really sure why this is a fun spot.

Lead the flop but as played super-snap fold?

[AlexMartin]

would bet flop, wouldnt bet turn, oop on a board which now smacks fish, plus tough reg to contend with, as played fold pretty fast.

[SuuPRlim]

Do people really thinmk this is a mandatory  flop bet?
I often check flops here, I;m playing two players with completely contrasting threats, on one hand the fish is likely to let me value town myself if he has JT, and Btn is capable of putting me into tricky spots, checking under-reps my hand, plus controls the pot slightly and b the time Iv seen a turn, I'll be much happier with the italians position in the hand....

Obv bet/folding is default best line, but i thin kthe check back has a ton of merit? anyone strongly disagree?

[AlexMartin]

Do people really thinmk this is a mandatory  flop bet?
I often check flops here, I;m playing two players with completely contrasting threats, on one hand the fish is likely to let me value town myself if he has JT, and Btn is capable of putting me into tricky spots, checking under-reps my hand, plus controls the pot slightly and b the time Iv seen a turn, I'll be much happier with the italians position in the hand....

Obv bet/folding is default best line, but i thin kthe check back has a ton of merit? anyone strongly disagree?

i think fundamentally this is always gonna be a difficult spot to play, but betting the flop because we are OOP is going to (and i hate saying this) make this hand much easier to play, because our range will be percieved as widest (im talking about having fun with the TAG), enabling us to take a myriad of different lines with an uncapped hand strength. if we were IP, then yer i think checking back has a lot more merit.

[SuuPRlim]

Do people really thinmk this is a mandatory  flop bet?
I often check flops here, I;m playing two players with completely contrasting threats, on one hand the fish is likely to let me value town myself if he has JT, and Btn is capable of putting me into tricky spots, checking under-reps my hand, plus controls the pot slightly and b the time Iv seen a turn, I'll be much happier with the italians position in the hand....

Obv bet/folding is default best line, but i thin kthe check back has a ton of merit? anyone strongly disagree?

i think fundamentally this is always gonna be a difficult spot to play, but betting the flop because we are OOP is going to (and i hate saying this) make this hand much easier to play, because our range will be percieved as widest (im talking about having fun with the TAG), enabling us to take a myriad of different lines with an uncapped hand strength. if we were IP, then yer i think checking back has a lot more merit.

arr. This is a cool post, ty