blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 16, 2025, 08:16:00 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2261662 Posts in 66596 Topics by 16983 Members
Latest Member: scotty2hatty2
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  The Rail
| | |-+  Just calling with the nuts on river rule
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Just calling with the nuts on river rule  (Read 3578 times)
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8081



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 04:27:07 PM »

He flat called because he was a proper begginner. Nothing sinister.

Disq

In which case he gets told off and told not to do it again. The disqual is for people who know what they're doing. Beginners can have a bit more leniency but should still expect to be hit with at least a penalty in most instances.

And that's why it's good. It'd stop locals softplaying each other if they know it's not acceptable and that they won't get away with it.
Logged

Blue text
acc2020
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 169



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 04:49:25 PM »

I sometimes play in Liverpool when on business there and on one occasion one friend raises and his mate the last guy to act instafolds his QQ, everyone laughs even the dealer.

The whole table had Liverpudlian accents.



I AM NOT SUGGESTING LIVERPUDLIANS ARE CHEATS OF ANY KIND !!!
I am only using this as an illustration of " locals soft playing each other "
It may be possible that they laughed because the raiser is known to be a super rock and the QQ were deemed beat.I don't play there often so do not know their playing styles.
Logged
Honeybadger
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1920



View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 05:41:26 PM »

The rule that you are compelled to bet/raise last to speak with the nuts on the river is wrong and illogical imho. It is based on the seemingly reasonable assumption that the only reason you would ever fail to bet/raise the nuts on the river is if you are colluding with or softplaying someone, and therefore that this should be disallowed. However, this seemingly reasonable assumption is actually flawed. There are situations in tournament poker in which it would be a clear strategic error for you to bet/raise with the nuts on the river.

You are on the bubble. As the big stack you have been bullying the table relentlessly and increasing your stack steadily without ever seeing a flop. The entire table is playing far too tight as they are all trying to sneak into the money, and you have been relentlessly exploiting this. In this situation you want the bubble to continue for as long as possible, and it is actually detrimental to your EV if someone gets knocked out. The reason for this is, of course, that you are likely to be able to increase your chip stack even further if the bubble lasts longer, giving you an even greater chance to win the tournament when the bubble does eventually burst.

You have the nuts on the river. You are hu in the pot against a super short stack. He bets 2/3 of his stack. If you raise he will very likely call and will bust out of the tourney. At that point the bubble will burst, and some of your edge will go down since now your opponents will have made the money and will start to play more optimally. Therefore, raising would be a -EV play. It is in your interest to keep the bubble going longer and this is the only way to do it. In fact, if the short stack had pushed all-in on the river you should probably fold your hand. The EV you would gain from the bubble lasting longer is likely greater than the EV you gain from hoovering up the last of the short stack's chips.

Now granted, this exact situation is not likely to come up in a pure form in practice. However, variations based on its underlying principle  will definitely occur. Clearly a player who chooses not to bet the nuts on the river (or even to fold the nuts) in this sort of spot can be doing so purely for strategic reasons intended to increase his chances of winning the tournament. So the rule that this should not be allowed is wrong imho.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 06:01:04 PM by Honeybadger » Logged
JaffaCake
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1884



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 06:20:47 PM »

this happpened in the UKIPT in Manchester, guy flat called with teh ace of spades on a 4 spade no str8 flush board, and some local guy not in the pot went mad and called the floor. It was only a bit later I realised the guy who flat called, who had already said it was his first time playing live, had busted the local guys aces limp calling K6 off utg, probably why he called the floor. Mr K6 off was obv a bit of a numpty and hadn't realised he couldn't be beat or that he'd broken a rule. Dena gave the ruling, asked what had happened, saw the guy was a bit clueless and just warned him not to do it again and explained the rule to him, seemed a good decision to me. He didn't hang around too long to try it again mind...
Logged
alfiesdad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 147



View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 11:17:36 AM »

Cheers for all that chaps.
Logged

Twitter - @leeavy
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.109 seconds with 21 queries.