advice on being staked would be appreciated (very long)

[geordieneil]

ok where do i start,
     i have never asked to be staked but been offered several times most notably by andy greekfish when he found out i gave up poker for approx 18 months, and won several tournaments under his staking (i won a 636 man tourni on my 1st day under his backing),this lasted a few months, think i won 11 tournaments in the 1st month,it lasted 2-3 months, but although still good friends he had a few family and personal issues and let me go alone, i had built up a bit of a roll and my maximum respect and full appreciation goes out to him.

   unfortunately i am on long term sicknes with back problems due to 18 years as a flat roofer, and something has to pay the bills so anything i make from poker usually gets spent on essentials rather than building a roll

  thats pretty much how i got into poker, i ran my own self employed gang and made a reasonable turnover, but i took 3 months off as my back was in agony and it needed a good rest, bored shitless during my time off i spent a lot of time on the internet having small bets on ladbrokes......i was pretty shit at that    i seen a little button in the corner saying poker, the rest is history......i started playing small sng's whilst i was learning the basics of the game and got hooked pretty quickly, maths or mental arithmatic is a very strong point of mine and i soon realised that maths is a major factor in poker.
   before long i was winning quite a few small buy in touraments and was actually making a decent wage out of it and was starting to make a bit of a name for myself on ladbrokes(even though admittedly i still needed to learn an awful lot more before i could take this game as a serious form of income)


i moved up a little and started to play slighly higher mtts and sats into the bigger things (at this time i was still learning, well i still am today) i had been playing for about 3 months by this time and was making about $1000-1500 profit a week in small buy ins only ($1,$3,$5 and the odd $10) i won a sat into the $45,000 grnt on ladbrokes for $11, for those who remember it, it was a nightly $100 rebuy, in only my 2nd time of playing it i  won it binking $16,355, not bad for an $11 outlay (this was late 2005)  i kept my feet on the ground and treat the family to a holiday with it and still had a few bags of sand left over, i carried on at the lower limits mtt's and continued with my sucess winning mtt's on a regular basis, i actually won 5 in a day once. by now i realsied it cant just be luck, i must have a natural talent for this game and moved up to mid level mtt's $50-$100 region, my success continued. i also started playing live for the first time playing mainly at stanleys at newcastle and made 10 final tables in my first 11 events, winning 4 of them. in early 2006 i started playing more on bet365 the mtt's had better value and more runners, every sunday there was a $50 rebuy with $100k grnt prizepool i played this for the first time and with 992 runners and 9 hours laters i won it and picked up £27,129 for a total $200 outlay. this took my first 6 months of taking poker serious profits to over $120,000.

   this is where my problems began...........i knew fk all about bankroll management and quite simply took the game for granted, i thought it was too easy and moved up to play higher games £1000+ events, spending money like it was going out of fashion etc etc.....i just stupidly assumed dont worry, i'll win some more.   dont get me wrong the ranking events i played i did "ok" i went deep in my 1st £1000 event in blackpool to get my kk cracked by aq quite near the money by the evetual winner john exely (i still haven't forgave u john lol) in my 2nd event i finalled in the midlands meltdown only managed 8th but still a decent achievement for someone who had been playing for about a year.

   from there it went down hill, i forgot about the more serious things in life, mainly my family. i made quite a bit of money through poker and got "greedy" i had tunnel vision to make a million, unfortuantly i lost the plot a little(well a lot) i was playing live 6 or 7 times a week and when i got home i'd switch the computer on for a few more hours...get a couple hours kip and back to the casino....the inevitable happened and my partner of 13 years and my daughter left me...........i was distraught, my mind in pieces, i just didnt realise what i was doing to myself and more importantly my family.
   i took a little while out of poker to try and get my family back but to no avail.
 i tried playing poker again but my mind just wasnt with it and literally started to hate the game for what it had done to my life.....i'll rephrase that, what i let it do to my life.

    anyway i gave up poker 100% and went back to work, learned massively from my mistakes and my life was soon back on track. i was offered a job in milton keynes as a contracts manager with a nice package, nice merc company car and things were looking bright again. worked for this company for 6 months but my back was playing up seriosly again. i had no choice but to leave and go on the sick (no i'm not a benifit freeloader,i've paid more tax than most will pay in their life time, some people do have serious and genuine problems)

   i was approached by a landlord of a social club to start up a little charity game to get a few punters in on his quietest day whilst raising a few bob for charity, it was great fun to start, but would i ever be a full time td NO THANK YOU lol. i invited a few well known players to come and play Paul Jackson brought the family one night, and i phoned Andy greekfish to see if he fancied it, he brought up the conversation of why he hadn't seen me online for so long or had i changed aliases or sites......i explained i gave it up for the reasons explained,     i was regulary on the tables with andy in the better days and we chatted a fair bit and met him on ladbrokes cruise 2006, he knew how well i was doing when i played full time and i knew how he was literally cleaning up the cash tables on ladbrokes, he then offered to stake me to help me get back into the game and offered me sound advice on avoiding the tunnel vision and basically take one step at a time. and if things arn't going well take a bit of time off. to cut a very long story a little shorter i won 29 tournements in 3 months and most were big fields and anyone who knows andy give him a call or pm him, i will be fairly confident he will speak highly of me (or at least i hope so)

   people may ask if you had so much success surely you can do it again......sounds easy, but like i said i am on incapacity benifit and you barely get enough money to eat, so trying to spin up your spare £20 every week is near impossible....


    a few facts if anyone was interested in backing me:
i have played 11 ranking events and cashed in 4
i recently won the £100 world cup deepstack at dtd for £2,765  http://www.dusktilldawnpokerclub.com/resultplayers.php?id=1562 why its not ranked i'm not quite sure
in my first 2 years i was approx $200-250k in profit (badly managed as a bankroll, but wisely spent on paying most of my mortgage off and paying for extension and conservatory, and some greatly spent on serious pissups ......i no longer drink btw,well not much )
i have played live 8 times this year and cashed in 5
i have cashed in my last 2 dtd £300 monthly's both times making day2 amongst the chip leaders

the boshi bash
Here are the players left

   Overnight chip Counts

Manoj Mistry   12   4   190500
Sukhbir Jolly   14   2   166400
Andriena Nutt   12   1   158000
Neil Allen           14   1   154700
Sean Quinn     13   9   151700
Julian Thew   13   2   127900
Anon            15   1   113800
Karl Guiness   13   3   112500
Daniel Phillips   11   8   100900 lucky fish lol.....n1 boshi
Chris Sieder           15   6   94800
Ian Mcdonald   11   6   88600
Simon Deadman   11   1   83800

i also finished 10th in feb £300 was sucked out on the f/t bubble, got them in good and if hand held i was 2nd in chips for f/t.....the "bedi bash"

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=67627


i write this more in advice needed, all advice will be appreciated

[Longy]

Interesting story.

You might want to condense that down (provide cliffs), as I am not really sure you know what you want. Do you want staking live or online (both). Online has changed a lot in the last few years, games got a lot lot tougher.

Gl whatever, just not sure you are going to get what you need if you don't get more specific about what you are looking for.

[Rupert]

What do you do to try and improve at poker?  What is it you want advice about?  Post looks to me more like you want to be staked, rather than advice on being staked - correct me if i'm wrong!

[geordieneil]

Interesting story.

You might want to condense that down (provide cliffs), as I am not really sure you know what you want. Do you want staking live or online (both). Online has changed a lot in the last few years, games got a lot lot tougher.

Gl whatever, just not sure you are going to get what you need if you don't get more specific about what you are looking for.

 a way back full time is what i'm looking at, i know its very long but if people would want to stake me i prefer they knew my history in poker and why i want backing.

what i am hoping for more is live staking, i have a very good record in deep structured events, the problem is deep structures are normally steep buy ins and out of my my financial range at the mo. the advice i suppose i am after is what i should be asking for, quite frankly i would play for free(well close to) for a few good structured tournements to prove myself.

as far as online i fully agree games have become far more difficult, but as i said i was with andy greekfish for about 3 months late 2009 and won 29 tournements in 3 months, so i know i can still beat it, the problem i had was not running aswell in the big buy ins which ate away the roll i built


ps i will try to put it into cliffs when i get in later, it is ridic long lol

[geordieneil]

What do you do to try and improve at poker?  What is it you want advice about?  Post looks to me more like you want to be staked, rather than advice on being staked - correct me if i'm wrong!

clearly i want to be staked, the post is about advice i could do with in what i should be asking for, its new territory for me, i've never asked to be staked before, but was regularly offered (most of which i turned down) but like i have said i gave up poker after spliting with my partner and spliting with my partner meant spliting with my bankroll, if u know what i mean  
   what sort of level should i be asking for, what percentages, covering of expenses that sort of advice.

like ive said i have done very well in the £300 monthly's at dtd (very unlucky not to go further in last 2) but its not a £300 tourni for me, by the time i pay hotel, travel, buy in, juices etc its a £500 buy in

[Rupert]

I assume you want to be staked for MTTs?  Live or online?  What sort of volume do you think you will put away?  What buyins do you want to play?  Do you have a full records of anything, live or online for a recent period?

TBH I think you'll be doing well to get any deal from what you've posted - if you want somewhere to start i'd get staked for $4/180 online or 25c/50c cash or something similar

[StuartHopkin]

Hi Neil

Interesting post, sounds like youve had some amazing ups and downs in the past.

It sounds like your looking for a long term staking deal for live events, where you would normally ask for 100% of the buy in, and profits are split 50/50ish between you and the backer.
Notice where I said profits though, these kind of deals involve make up, and are really a very strangely structured loan.
If you dont cash in your first 10 £300 tourneys, say, you have to win that £3000 back and return it to the staker before there is any mention of a cut for you.
Im not saying you need to be playing £300 tourneys, but you need someone with deep pockets to cover any kind of long term staking. If the staker cant afford to put you into the agreed events your staking ends and you have no reason to pay back the money owed/make up.
In the same way though, if for some reason you need to terminate the staking and you are £3,000 in make up you would have a responsibility to pay this back.

You really need to do the maths on this and put together a specific staking request as the guys above have said.
What you want to play, when and where etc

I mean no offence by this, but I also think it would be unrealistic to base what you think you are going to get from this staking on your previous results.
I dont think that kind of winning is sustainable long term. Must have been nice though. 

So work out what your going to play, and a realistic return. Then work out what your share will be, take away your expenses and you might be surprised at what little your left with.

Heres an example for a year, we wont worry about when the cashes happen, just the overall outcome for the year.

You get staked for the DTD £300 and £200 monthly events.
24 Tournaments
You cash in two of each, (I think this is a pretty generous assumption)
£300 1st cash = 5th £3600
£300 2nd cash = 15th £600
£200 1st cash = 3rd £2660
£200 2nd cash = 8th £570

So the tourney cost to your staker is £336 x 12 + £224 x 12 = £6720
Your total cashes during the year = £7430

Your staker gets his £6720 back

This leaves a profit of £710

You get £355 to pay for 24 x £100 weekend expenses

Cost of playing poker to you for the year = £2045

Obviously the above is just an example, you may think you will win more, you may think you will win less. You might bink the first tourney you play. Who knows?

Hopefully it gives you an idea though of what you are looknig for, and just how much you will need to be winning to make it pay.

Good luck

[action man]

so many figures plucked out of the sky m8.

even i won in 2005 it was so easy back then.

if you won 39 tournies in 3 months with fields 200+ i will be absolutely astounded.

Any OPR's for stars/tilt in the last 3 years?

are you interested in letting potetial stakers rail you on teamviewer to see what your made of?

also id leave the live results out of the equation, no potential staker with a brain wants to know about them for a few reasons.

1) no-one will ever play an amount of live tourneys to distinguish whether they are a winner in them long term or not. Moorman does his cobblers live, mickey wernick was european player of the year.

2) the standard of the £330 dtd event and similar buyins is so unbelievably bad that anyone who knows what a check raise is can beat them. In £1ks these days you basically have 2 groups, good online winners, and rich old guys who are succesful businessmen because all the old live donks are being whittled away.

3) It is unlikely you will find a staker for live only and its an awful proposition for yourlself as expences will cripple you and your winnings will be a long time apart.

Sorry if you think im sabbotagingthe thread/pissing on your fire a bit. I will happily rail you on teamviewer playing a few comps and if i feel you would be a good investment will reccomend you to a stable boss.
99% of deals these days tho require or should require you to grind atleast 100mtt per week at your chosen levels.

[mondatoo]

^^^ Good post.

[pleno1]

Good posts Trigg and Hopkin.

Never met you before Neil, although I know you come from Newcastle and genuinely seem like a very nice guy.

I'm obv not in a position to give you staking like you are asking for, but if you wanted say 1-3k to play 4/180s or small MTT's I may be interested in taking 10% or something.

Your past records are very impressive, and although others have said that you cant focus on them too much I still think it shows you are at least competent if not very good. If you really have won 29 tournies in that small period then MBSFN! but again like Trigg I think it sounds unrealistic. Hope you have though mate.

If I were you I would listen to  few more posts, then make a new post outlining exactly what you intend to play and how much you want to give away in %s etc like Hopkin did ^^^^.

GL mate.

[GreekStein]

Hi Neil,

I bumped into Greekfish in Ireland at the weekend and he's now playing again after a bit of time off from poker to spend with the family. Now that he's concentrating on the game again you might wanna see if he's interested in picking things up with you again?

gL

[boldie]

Excellent post from Trigg and, more surprisingly, from Hopkin.

[StuartHopkin]

Excellent post from Trigg and, more surprisingly, from Hopkin.

I forgot what I was doing Boldie

I didnt switch from work mode to Blondepoker Clown mode.

Ill delete it, as it kind of gives a bad impression of me.

[boldie]

Excellent post from Trigg and, more surprisingly, from Hopkin.

I forgot what I was doing Boldie

I didnt switch from work mode to Blondepoker Clown mode.

Ill delete it, as it kind of gives a bad impression of me.

thanks, it confused the shit out of me...was convinced Fattiepie had gotten hold of your account or something

[pleno1]

Hi Neil,

I bumped into Greekfish in Ireland at the weekend and he's now playing again after a bit of time off from poker to spend with the family. Now that he's concentrating on the game again you might wanna see if he's interested in picking things up with you again?

gL

Sounds like promosing news, hopefully you can get a deal with him again.