Pre flop question

[George2Loose]

ukcoop main. 20k stacks. What do most do here and why?

PokerStars Game #54138629928: Tournament #2010121011, $500+$30 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (25/50) - 2010/12/12 15:15:11 WET [2010/12/12 10:15:11 ET]
Table '2010121011 3' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: R1 FYN (19840 in chips)
Seat 2: George2Loose (20750 in chips)
Seat 3: 4Kings_Hit (19625 in chips)
Seat 4: JT-Nick (20825 in chips)
Seat 5: lov10k (19725 in chips)
Seat 6: leshark81 (19975 in chips)
Seat 7: judgedredd13 (20185 in chips)
Seat 8: MARLIN ACE (18875 in chips)
R1 FYN: posts small blind 25
George2Loose: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to George2Loose [ ]
4Kings_Hit: folds
JT-Nick : raises 100 to 150
lov10k: folds
leshark81: folds
judgedredd13: folds
MARLIN ACE: folds
R1 FYN: raises 250 to 400
George2Loose:

[DMorgan]

Flat? You're 400bbs deep

Anything else would be pretty bad imo

[George2Loose]

Folding would be bad?

[pleno1]

omg is that what you had in that hand? sick

[DMorgan]

If you were 100bbs deep the fact that the original raiser was UTG+1 and is therefore more likely to 4bet might swing it to a fold if the original raiser was a bit of a nit but until we have information to suggest that the UTG+1 raisers range is really tight I'm happy to flat this

[George2Loose]

omg is that what you had in that hand? sick

yeh. Just posted cos Ive been told by a very sick online player that I should have folded pre

[pleno1]

I was watching and was dying to know but didn't wanna give you rubs. So sick that he finds that turn card with the cold 3bet OTF. ul.

[George2Loose]

I was watching and was dying to know but didn't wanna give you rubs. So sick that he finds that turn card with the cold 3bet OTF. ul.

I almost click it back to 8460. Had it typed in the box but thought it would look too strong lol

[the rage]

I dont mind folding here, due to being oop in a 3 way pot and poss facing a 4 bet from the original raiser.
 serious question- would 4 betting to, say, 1450 be a daft move here? If it is, could someone explain to me why it is a no no. Cheers.

[redarmi]

I don't hate folding either but I don't like 4betting as you are so deep that flatting is the optimal play because UTG+1 probably has a decent hand so you have very good implied odds whereas if you 4bet only the worse hands fold and the better hands can bet you off your hand losing the chance to set mine with great implied odds.

[George2Loose]

I dont mind folding here, due to being oop in a 3 way pot and poss facing a 4 bet from the original raiser.
 serious question- would 4 betting to, say, 1450 be a daft move here? If it is, could someone explain to me why it is a no no. Cheers.

Basically your bluffing

[Cf]

I don't mind any option really.

Calling for the set hoping there's no 4bet. I think the 4bet is unlikely so we'll prob get to see this pot 3 ways. Bad point is when there is a 4bet we've spewed a few chips away.

Folding is fine because of the above. We don't want to just spew chips. But this spot isn't quite spew imo.

Raising is fine as long as you're aware you're bluffing as you do it. Prob a situation where I wouldn't bother though.

[the rage]

Thanks for those explanations Redarmi and George.
 My line of thought was that by 4 betting ourselves, first of all, we have a decent amount of fold equity and if we end the hand with the 4 bet, all well and good.
 Our 4-bet looks very strong and UTG+1 may well fold out many hands that are in good shape against us,from JT suited up to possibly AQ. If he does fold, we could then be playing our pocket nines in position against the SB.
 Obviously, if we get 5 bet by either opponent it's not good.
 Fair point about wanting to set mine with good odds, but, 400 seems to be a bit pricey to me. Also, if the flop comes low are we still only set mining?
 I just feel that playing a, likely 3 way pot we could put ourselves in a difficult spot with this hand, especially if we deviate from the set mining only position.
 I'm still trying to get to grips with 3bett / 4 bet stuff. Just trying to exercise my brain before i try and take down my local crapshoot.

[redarmi]

It is 350 more to us to win c20k (implied odds obv) so we are getting roughly 30/1 for the call to hit our set on the flop which is a 7/1 shot and the hand obviously has some value beyond that but you are going to be oop to the UTG+1 raiser and it is just a really tough hand to play post flop if you don't hit the set.  Assuming the UTG+1 just flats then what range are you going to put him on??  Do you feel very comfortable leading into him on a low flop??  It is just a tough hand to play post flop if we don't hit a big hand and with the stacks this deep there are going to be so many better spots.  That is why i don't even mind folding.

[pleno1]

if we call, guy 4bets, other guy calls, what we doing?