down to the river

[TightEnd]

£50 Live MTT. 64 runners 20 left 8 paid

blinds 600-1200

Hero 28,000

Villain 32,000

average 25,600


Have only played with villain for two orbits, the second on a move to this table after a table break. Random player, seems quite passive. Limped into a few pots, folded to action post flop. Then hit a set (unraised pot) and got paid to get his stack, then we both got moved.

I raise to 3,100 in MP unopened with 

Hero flats on the button


Heads up to a  flop which is pretty pleasant for 6-6

I lead for 4,500 into 8,000

He long dwell calls

A dry flop no real clues as to whether he has overs, or a made hand though the long dwell would suggest we aren't looking at 9x, and no 3-bet pre would suggest we aren't looking at premiums. So I was tending towards overs or small pairs


Pot now 17,000. I have 19,400

Turn 

Check, quick check

River 

I can check and hope to showdown or check and re-evaluate to action, lead or shove.

In an epic fail of bet sizing I lead for 8,000 (leaving myself a shoving stack if need be, I said to myself) . My thought being I could look strong/value bet-ish. I didn't want to leave 17,000 out there, via check-folding


Very long dwell, he calls


Ignoring my river action, what would you be looking to do in this spot? Should I be firing again on the turn to avoid this river spot?
 
 

[GreekStein]

I probably check and hope my hand is good. Don't think we're getting him to fold better and his check behind on the turn leads me to believe he probably won't bet.

[the sicilian]

bit odd..  his never got overpair a 9 at best..... prob 8 9 soooted knowing usual RD at Luton... u have good showdown value.. i think a nice blocker is best.. as his so passive u might even get check check out of him...don't like the 8k on the river after showing weakness on the turn..2nd bullett was best on the turn if he was looking unhappy at calling the flop..

[DMorgan]

I really wanna value bet this river but its a pretty FML spot when he sigh calls with 77 and 88 which kinda fits with his sigh call on the flop

I think against someone thats passive I'd probably just c/f 'cos I don't ever expect him to bluff the river and his flop call is unlikely to be a pure float. I think he checks back hands like A2s that he flatted with pre and called the flop with A high, the gutter+BDFD

[outragous76]

If you think he folds any 9 - then Jam - if not then check (call)

Kinda player dependant in a live setting. Checking the turn means he should think (if a thinking player) his 9 is good (as you would check any flopped sets, and bet most underpairs to his 9 on the flop). Therefore if he is weak passive, put all ur chips in the middle and let him work out how good his 9 is. If you think he is capable at all then just check call

Not personally a great fan of the blocker in this spot because it looks like what it is

[outragous76]

I really wanna value bet this river but its a pretty FML spot when he sigh calls with 77 and 88 which kinda fits with his sigh call on the flop

I think against someone thats passive I'd probably just c/f 'cos I don't ever expect him to bluff the river and his flop call is unlikely to be a pure float. I think he checks back hands like A2s that he flatted with pre and called the flop with A high, the gutter+BDFD

yeah  - passive player is NEVER betting without the goods here - but im ck/calling against a thinking player

[the sicilian]

If you think he folds any 9 - then Jam - if not then check (call)

Kinda player dependant in a live setting. Checking the turn means he should think (if a thinking player) his 9 is good (as you would check any flopped sets, and bet most underpairs to his 9 on the flop). Therefore if he is weak passive, put all ur chips in the middle and let him work out how good his 9 is. If you think he is capable at all then just check call

Not personally a great fan of the blocker in this spot because it looks like what it is

Jamming after checking the turn is just horrible here what are we trying to rep here other than a classic bet..check betbluff... blocker gets you to showdown cheaper as its designed to and only a very good player would rr with air seeing the weakness... as for the you would check any flopped sets thats just lol.... you always check sets ?  leading with sets on dry boards against half decent players looks like a weak continue.... in this scenario i think it goes check check due to passivity and your gonna get shown random 9 or 88

[outragous76]

If you think he folds any 9 - then Jam - if not then check (call)

Kinda player dependant in a live setting. Checking the turn means he should think (if a thinking player) his 9 is good (as you would check any flopped sets, and bet most underpairs to his 9 on the flop). Therefore if he is weak passive, put all ur chips in the middle and let him work out how good his 9 is. If you think he is capable at all then just check call

Not personally a great fan of the blocker in this spot because it looks like what it is

Jamming after checking the turn is just horrible here what are we trying to rep here other than a classic bet..check betbluff... blocker gets you to showdown cheaper as its designed to and only a very good player would rr with air seeing the weakness... as for the you would check any flopped sets thats just lol.... you always check sets ?  leading with sets on dry boards against half decent players looks like a weak continue.... in this scenario i think it goes check check due to passivity and your gonna get shown random 9 or 88

would i check a set OOP on a 359r board against a passive villain - yes gladly!

there is no info in this hand to suggest that villain is capable (re your point on flopped sets) - passive = bad imo

as for the blocker - i dont like it because passive players are usually stations and he aint folding his 9 here to a small bet. Therefore it becomes a bluff that is never going to succeed. At least by jamming we turn our hand into a bluff that might succeed.

[celtic]

Jam the turn.

[BulldozerD]

vs a passive player i probably just c/f, maybe put in a super small river bet

[the sicilian]

vs a passive player i probably just c/f, maybe put in a super small river bet

Thats a blocker

[Rupert]

would i check a set OOP on a 359r board against a passive villain - yes gladly!

lol fail

um as for the hand i'm a bit confused as to whether we are MP or the BTN but assuming you meant villain and not hero in OP then I guess we are MP and the PFR. In which case I think you played it well but you should c/c the river if villains passive.  Reason being is that passive villains don't value bet thinly (or value bet much at all for that matter), it's hard for him to have a jack since he called the flop (what Jx calls flop?), and he can legitimately have AQ or something and think shit I have A high better bluff.  Also you look weak after cbetting/ch/ch.  Betting this river when he can have a decent amount of 9x in his range is a mistake I think, not a ton we can get value from unless you note he has a tendancy to hero Ax.  If you do want to bet the river, you should bet very small since passive villain not gonna jam bluff.  Something of the order of 5k.  But I don't think most randos make A high call downs so i'd check/call.

[Rupert]

Depends what level of thinking of course, but vs most thinking players the river is definitely more of a c/f I think.  Doubt most thinking players expect you to fold a pair on this board especially when they aren't repping much themselves.

[TightEnd]

I was MP and the PFR

The river wasn't meant as a blocker at the time, but I realised after thats what it was

I think I should have bet the turn, setting up a river shove

or if I check the turn, check the river is the only consistent line

[the sicilian]

I was MP and the PFR

The river wasn't meant as a blocker at the time, but I realised after thats what it was

I think I should have bet the turn, setting up a river shove

or if I check the turn, check the river is the only consistent line

8k not a blocker tighty... more 4 a bit..the idea is to showdown cheap as pos... were preventing him betting 8-10k and giving us a decision which is prob fold so we never showdown... passive RD never going over the top here so we actually showdown for 4-6k cheaper