Prose from a Poshboy

[cambridgealex]

Cheers Ant, nice post.

Yeh the AJ might be closer than I first thought. We are getting 2:1 on a call and, if we're wrong our stack goes from 90k to 65k at 600/1200, so a big hit, but we still have 54 bbs to play with.

RE the light 3bets: I've found 3betting those stack sizes really useful recently. There aren't many people who'll 4b bluff off a stack in a 5k (I'm sure there are lots of such people, but I was sure the guys I was doing it to weren't ever going to do it) so when they open the button to 2bbs playing 30, and you 3b to 5bbs, they have to make a decision for their stack, and they're just not gonna push without a really good hand.

Those two spots were vs the same guy, I thought he would open the button really wide the first time, and with game flow/dynamic (I'd hardly 3bet and he'd paid me off when I had the set of 55 recently) I thought he'd fold a vhigh %. So that was close to an any two spot. I was suited though and had a jack, in case we get a rogue bb cold caller.

The second spot was the following orbit. I didn't think he'd expect me to do it again light, and I also had an Ace blocker which is important. I wouldn't have done it with any two that time.

It's a really useful tool, but does require pretty specific conditions to be not spewy imo.

[Ant040689]

Cheers for the further insight. Yeh i am prepared to get creative with that spot tbh, and just get as much experience as possible about what conditions to do a light three bet and when not to, and the way i will learn will probably be through failing miserably from time to time, but that's always the best way to learn.

Think 3 betting to a higher amount in this spot may be beneficial so he doesn't do a spaz 3 bet call light, so with his 30 bbs stack if he open bets to 2.4 is there justification to get a 3 bet in up to 7-8 bbs, as you really are then saying to the guy, look at me i have put quite a lot of chips in here and i will be calling ure 23 bbs all in ott shove no matter what. Meaning they really have to have the goods to make the shove and by betting to that awkwardly high amount he won't be calling unless he is slowplaying KK or AA.

So you would probably advocate a 5.5 bbs 3 bet here, but i would say for the extra 1.5-2.5 bbs you are more likely to get the desired result. Then you have to ask yourself with the potential for players behind to get involved and the initial raiser actually having the goods from time to time is putting 7 bbs out here to steal around 6 bbs in dead money worth it? Does the element of increased unlikelihood in showdown make the play better? I am only positing ideas instead of actually looking to do any of this. Was wondering what you think?

[cambridgealex]

I don't think it is worth making a 7bb or 8bb 3bet with those stacks/positions - it's a waste. Any thinking player is NEVER going to peel a 3bet out of 30bbs, even if it's only 3bbs more. So it's just a waste of 2 or 3bbs making a bigger 3bet.

People don't cold call 3bets either, unless they're much deeper, so I wouldn't be worried about 20-40bb stacks behind peeling. Plus, this is SB vs Btn so there is only one guy behind. The more people behind, the less attractive a spot it is of course, you're open to a big stack cold 4ing, or a short stack waking up with a hand.

Disclaimer: I am a cash game player by trade, tournaments are not my best game and I'm still learning and improving a lot. Having a tourney sicko come in and agree/disagree with anything I've written would be very helpful.

[Whollyflush]

Good post Ant.

I think its a fold in this mtt for the reasons stated, soft comp, soft tbl etc etc no need to push the edges to far when you will get gifted chips in all sorts of spots. Nevermind, live and learn and all that.

[tikay]

Really enjoyed your TR Alex, nicely written.

Safe journey home.

[CHIPPYMAN]

Good post Ant.

I think its a fold in this mtt for the reasons stated, soft comp, soft tbl etc etc no need to push the edges to far when you will get gifted chips in all sorts of spots. Nevermind, live and learn and all that.

Only u knew the table well than anyone else Alex .
It's a 5k comp and if people wanted to spew their chips is entirely up to them.
I think if u made mistake, the mistakes r done by u .
Learn by mistake dude . Wp anyway

[pleno1]

Yeh I agree Dubai, although in this spot, I'm pretty sure he's shoving every flush draw with his stack size and the way he plays. Would you call? I didn't think it was thaaat close, I called fairly quickly and was happy it was the right thing to do.

@pleno - I had 30k at 12/24 and the average was 80k. We'd shove 19 bigs bvb with AT and it'd be fine, so 25 over an open seems fine. What else are we gonna do? We can't fold when he's been opening J8ss from MP.

id never jam 19 blinds with a10 bvb

[pleno1]

regarding the 3bets, i do them all the time too in these spots, but vs Italians may be less inclined as they can often just lolpeel q10 etc

[pleno1]

I previously used to play v.different to how I do now in tournaments. This year I've had some ridiculous results, but ran very very well, so often don't know if my new style has helped alot or if it will have a negative effect on my game.

I generally dont like 3bet shoving more than 20bbs, definitely not more than 25bbs. I also don't like open shoving more than like 13bbs, I know its unexploitable to jam more than 15bbs and have a chart open at all times showing me unexploitable shoves from different positions with different hands but I just feel like keeping tournament life is to important.

BVB I just can't see how shoving 19bbs is going to be good, if they are just so so aggro then I much prefer to r/call. Vs bad players I think as a cash game player we can read dynamics really welland that keeping our stack alive is just so imperative, especially when deep.

I think that playing by the book and r/f certain bbs and 3b/folding from a relatively shallower stack than normal is super under-rated.

I was on the final on a 301r1a and a guy just doubled q10v88 vs me where I r/called 20ish bigs, next 2 hands he opens and 3rd one I 3b jam a7cc for like 23bbs. At the time I felt it was terrible but see everyone saying its really standard and seeing good regs doing it all the time so went for it. I think from then I've tried to be really unconventional and exploit stack sizes and my image as much as possible with as many 3/4bs as possible rather than risking my whole stack.

Maybe I'm talking abs bullshit and sorry for the tl'dr but played hundreds of tournaments in last month or so and been thinking about them alot

[SuuPRlim]

And when you put ranges in, it assumes the player is just as likely to shove KQ on this board as Tc9c when he holds these hands. Hence why range calculators can be manipulated to make incorrect plays appear correct on paper. Not saying this was a bad call btw, but its closer than you calculated

Didnt want that to sound bad after u busted ur biggest comp, cos just nitpicking anyway- enjoy the evening

yh - you know you can imput frequencies into stoves so youcan say AK:xx:50% this would mean AKs, but half the time (inn affect half the combo's) and it alters the results.

Obviously these numbers are complete guesswork, but if you know for defo a player is always shoving X hand and isn't always shoving Y hand, but that he defo would shove Y hand some times you can put :66% after Y (meaning he WONT shove it 1/3 of the time he has it) and that defo makes it MORE accurate than not (if this makes sense?)

[CHIPPYMAN]

I previously used to play v.different to how I do now in tournaments. This year I've had some ridiculous results, but ran very very well, so often don't know if my new style has helped alot or if it will have a negative effect on my game.

I generally dont like 3bet shoving more than 20bbs, definitely not more than 25bbs. I also don't like open shoving more than like 13bbs, I know its unexploitable to jam more than 15bbs and have a chart open at all times showing me unexploitable shoves from different positions with different hands but I just feel like keeping tournament life is to important.

BVB I just can't see how shoving 19bbs is going to be good, if they are just so so aggro then I much prefer to r/call. Vs bad players I think as a cash game player we can read dynamics really welland that keeping our stack alive is just so imperative, especially when deep.

I think that playing by the book and r/f certain bbs and 3b/folding from a relatively shallower stack than normal is super under-rated.

I was on the final on a 301r1a and a guy just doubled q10v88 vs me where I r/called 20ish bigs, next 2 hands he opens and 3rd one I 3b jam a7cc for like 23bbs. At the time I felt it was terrible but see everyone saying its really standard and seeing good regs doing it all the time so went for it. I think from then I've tried to be really unconventional and exploit stack sizes and my image as much as possible with as many 3/4bs as possible rather than risking my whole stack.

Maybe I'm talking abs bullshit and sorry for the tl'dr but played hundreds of tournaments in last month or so and been thinking about them alot

R talking about live or online. I think they r two different
subject..... Sigh

[pleno1]

i thnk they are both the same from fundamentals pov, if anything we should shove wider online than live as we're not going to be exploited live whilst we can online.

[CHIPPYMAN]

i thnk they are both the same from fundamentals pov, if anything we should shove wider online than live as we're not going to be exploited live whilst we can online.

Ok

[Ant040689]

A10 is always an open shove with 19 bbs from sb imo. Maybe not pre antes.

[pleno1]

A10 is always an open shove with 19 bbs from sb imo. Maybe not pre antes.

why? i definitely dont think it is.