Pretty looking hand in the BB. Action??

[EvilPie]

Comp is DTD standard £150 crapshoot. Average stack about 25k and won't go above 20 bigs for remainder of tournament.

Our stack is 21k

Blinds are 800/1600 + 200 and we are the big blind 9 handed.

Mid position reasonably tight and has been known to raise/fold makes it 4300.

Next to act who can be a bit fishy flats and the action folds to us.

We have  .

Fishy caller is likely to call a shove from me whilst declaring "ah fuck it, I'll have a gamble".

So do we shove, fold or make a speculative call with our lovely looking hand?

FWIW my option was to call but it took some time to decide. Just wondering if it was a leak??

[boldie]

Probably a leak but I call...it's just soo pretty.

[outragous76]

not calling

jam or fold

given your assesment of fish and dependant upon his range  its probs fold>>>jam>>>call - but it all look close

Maybe get it in and go for the win  - or maybe you get unexpected folds? - hand flops welll

[George2Loose]

Fold. Jamming isn't bad but only if it has a decent chance of getting through. U may not be in awful shape if you get called

[cambridgealex]

peeling is pretty awful but understand the temptations. I like jamming very much though. If it gets through the OR then even if you get called by the fish, your rarely crushed. He shows up with 99> and AQ a bunch. Sometimes AJ calls it off but even then you have a flush and straight draw winnnn

[BulldozerD]

can for sure understand the temptation to peel

prob should fold but would struggle in real time, might jam depending on my table image at the time also think the stacks of opener and caller are quite important.

[EvilPie]

It's 2700 to call and there's 12800 in the middle.

Good chance of getting my stack in on a nice looking flop with 2 to 1 pot odds or 3 to 1 if I flop huge and it goes 3 way all in.

Implied odds looked reasonable to me.

If I call and miss I've still got 10bbs which is a nice shoving stack.

I can understand people saying either option is correct but I'm interested in their reasoning. I spent a good minute or so working out the numbers and to me it just seemed about right to peel.

[EvilPie]

can for sure understand the temptation to peel

prob should fold but would struggle in real time, might jam depending on my table image at the time also think the stacks of opener and caller are quite important.

Sorry forgot to mention other stacks. Neither were huge and neither desperate. Both had me covered with the caller having more of the 2, probs about 60k.

Jam isn't getting past caller and he's definitely ahead of us at the moment. I've played him a lot and he knows I'm capable of shoving light here. He's calling if opener doesn't.

I'd say with 90% certainty we can forget about having any FE in this situation.

[GreekStein]

Then fold and preserve your stack for spots where you can get it in first.

We will often flop a 10 or a J or a draw and get the remainder of our chips in, in bad shape because we can't fold having called pre with such a shallow stack.

If your lats were like they used to be, move all in and flop the royal.

[BulldozerD]

probs best to fold it then.

implied odds are not really relevant this shallow, you are just looking to flop something to justify putting the rest in.

What is your action if you:
flop top pair - say T73 flop
Flop middle pair - KT3 flop
flop bottom pair + gutter - TQA flop
or flop any sort of draw

are you open jamming flop, check-calling/jamming or c/folding

[George2Loose]

Dont really think u have implied odds here to peel.

Also think shoving is good because lots of nits fold better hands and only call with the top of their range

But as you have described villian type to gamboool I muck quite quickly

[DMorgan]

Big leak flatting here, I think I like a jam too but folding wouldn't be a mistake

[SuuPRlim]

probs best to fold it then.

implied odds are not really relevant this shallow, you are just looking to flop something to justify putting the rest in.

What is your action if you:
flop top pair - say T73 flop
Flop middle pair - KT3 flop
flop bottom pair + gutter - TQA flop
or flop any sort of draw

are you open jamming flop, check-calling/jamming or c/folding

I think technically we should jam 100% of flops we're chk/calling to maximise fold equity, if we flop a striaght or something then prolly chk lolhv

pots gonna be 14k and we have 16k behind, so if you assume no-one ever folds when we jam he flop flop/we chk call to get lighter jams from MP then we're calling 16k into 30k and need to flop a little over 50% equity to stack off and if we use this example (vs AK and 99 which is prolly the best shape we'd be in on the flop)

so we're flopping enough equity onlny 20% of the time, so if we stacking off perfectly we should be chk/folding 4/5 times, I dont need to do the maths to show its a HUGE -chEV leak to peel, speshly when we consider you culd be in far far worse shape preflop as well

[AlexMartin]

pretty clear fold, dont mind a jam but this loks soooooo squeezy and i just dont think we get the folds.

[EvilPie]

Thanks for all the input guys. Really appreciate it.

I had a feeling I'd made a mistake and like I said it took a while before I decided to call.

I guess the  flop was pretty much all I could hope for for almost the full treble up against fishes 99 when he jammed against original raiser's c bet