UK Online Poker market to decline?

[DaveShoelace]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

Think its a combination of advertising being allowed on TV (especially the half time 'rooney to score in 2nd half 3-1' type of adverts) and also new demographics appearing, particularly housewives. I think there are more adverts for bingo then there are poker (That said, my mum plays poker now which is quite lol)

The small stakes market is where its at now, poker wise, hence stuff like PokerStars Home Games garnering a lot of interest.

[AlunB]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

What are you basing all this on Tikay? And are you talking specifically about the UK here? Internationally dot coms are suffering. Although a factor in most networks' fall in numbers is the removal the Italian and French consumers. Is the small stakes comment based on anecdootal/observed evidence or from speaking to poker sites about it?

I'm just curious.

[tikay]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

Think its a combination of advertising being allowed on TV (especially the half time 'rooney to score in 2nd half 3-1' type of adverts) and also new demographics appearing, particularly housewives. I think there are more adverts for bingo then there are poker (That said, my mum plays poker now which is quite lol)

The small stakes market is where its at now, poker wise, hence stuff like PokerStars Home Games garnering a lot of interest.

Another factor in the growth is "Mobile", a very surprising collateral effect of "smartphones" is (are?)  "apps" which enable betting to be done anytime, anywhere. That has changed the industry completely. That is where the phenom growth originates. It used to be a trip to the High Street bookie (they are in serious decline now, of course), now, just press a button on the smarty, anywhere antyime anyplace, job done. If you think about it, it's so logical.

Online Bingo is also HUGE now, & off the graph. Makes sense really. The B & M Bingo Rooms must be hurting dreadfully.

Small stakes poker - yes yes yes. That segment has been hitherto ignored by the Industry, despite contributing up to 80% of the revenues. Not any more, they are the target for almost every Room now, & are at last being roperly catered for. Quite right too.

I think it's taken the Industry almost a decade to wake up to the fact that these small stakes players - the base of the pyramid, the submerged part of the iceberg - don't know what "rakeback" is, & ain't interested. The penny has dropped, at last.

[tikay]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

What are you basing all this on Tikay? And are you talking specifically about the UK here? Internationally dot coms are suffering. Although a factor in most networks' fall in numbers is the removal the Italian and French consumers. Is the small stakes comment based on anecdootal/observed evidence or from speaking to poker sites about it?

I'm just curious.

Trade press & online industry sites. You will understand that because of my job, we study that sort of stuff miscoscopically. Fortunately, we are very much bucking the trend, though to a degree, that is because we are only 4 years old, & our growth pattern has yet to plateau. It's also because we Market well.

No, not UK, worldwide. 'Stars & Tilt are in y-o-y double-digit decline, i-poker is way, way down, so the market must be heading south.

The French & Italian scenarios - many many more Countries will follow suit within 5 years - muddies the water, though.

The shape of the industry will change considerably in the next 5 years. The networks will feel the most pain, for sure.

[pleno1]

grinders gonna grind

[DaveShoelace]

Another factor in the growth is "Mobile", a very surprising collateral effect of "smartphones" is (are?)  "apps" which enable betting to be done anytime, anywhere. That has changed the industry completely. That is where the phenom growth originates. It used to be a trip to the High Street bookie (they are in serious decline now, of course), now, just press a button on the smarty, anywhere antyime anyplace, job done. If you think about it, it's so logical.

Online Bingo is also HUGE now, & off the graph. Makes sense really. The B & M Bingo Rooms must be hurting dreadfully.

Small stakes poker - yes yes yes. That segment has been hitherto ignored by the Industry, despite contributing up to 80% of the revenues. Not any more, they are the target for almost every Room now, & are at last being roperly catered for. Quite right too.

I think it's taken the Industry almost a decade to wake up to the fact that these small stakes players - the base of the pyramid, the submerged part of the iceberg - don't know what "rakeback" is, & ain't inrerested. The penny has dropped, at last.

The bingo stuff really took off following the smoking ban, bingo halls had probably as big a smoking culture as anyone and it hit them really hard.

[AlunB]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

Think its a combination of advertising being allowed on TV (especially the half time 'rooney to score in 2nd half 3-1' type of adverts) and also new demographics appearing, particularly housewives. I think there are more adverts for bingo then there are poker (That said, my mum plays poker now which is quite lol)

The small stakes market is where its at now, poker wise, hence stuff like PokerStars Home Games garnering a lot of interest.

Another factor in the growth is "Mobile", a very surprising collateral effect of "smartphones" is (are?)  "apps" which enable betting to be done anytime, anywhere. That has changed the industry completely. That is where the phenom growth originates. It used to be a trip to the High Street bookie (they are in serious decline now, of course), now, just press a button on the smarty, anywhere antyime anyplace, job done. If you think about it, it's so logical.

Online Bingo is also HUGE now, & off the graph. Makes sense really. The B & M Bingo Rooms must be hurting dreadfully.

Small stakes poker - yes yes yes. That segment has been hitherto ignored by the Industry, despite contributing up to 80% of the revenues. Not any more, they are the target for almost every Room now, & are at last being roperly catered for. Quite right too.

I think it's taken the Industry almost a decade to wake up to the fact that these small stakes players - the base of the pyramid, the submerged part of the iceberg - don't know what "rakeback" is, & ain't inrerested. The penny has dropped, at last.

Stars and Party didn't even have proper 'high stakes' tables for a long time. I don't think small stakes players have been ignored. Possibly not respected and underappreciated, but not ignored. Heck online sites such as Tribeca practically invented the concept with things like $0.01/$0.02 tables.

Everyone loves online bingo because it's growth has been phenomenal and everyone loves a growth story - especially public companies. But it's not off the scale. And it's demographics aren't as sexy as any other vertical.

[AlunB]

we are in a recession, first things to go are luxuries such as poker.

The facts don't support that, though. The Report seems ro be a bit out of date, but all the latest evidence points to a clear & significant downturn in Online Poker, with the Networks almost all showing a steepening southbound graph.

However, Online Gaming - excluding poker - is going the other way, very much so, & the Online Gaming Market's growth in the last 18 months has been eye-watering.

MORE money is being spent in Online gaming - much more. Less of it is being spent in Online Poker.

The Online poker area which has held up best is the small stakes stuff, where growth continues. Mid & high stakes are suffering though.

What are you basing all this on Tikay? And are you talking specifically about the UK here? Internationally dot coms are suffering. Although a factor in most networks' fall in numbers is the removal the Italian and French consumers. Is the small stakes comment based on anecdootal/observed evidence or from speaking to poker sites about it?

I'm just curious.

Trade press & online industry sites. You will understand that because of my job, we study that sort of stuff miscoscopically. Fortunately, we are very much bucking the trend, though to a degree, that is because we are only 4 years old, & our growth pattern has yet to plateau. It's also because we Market well.

No, not UK, worldwide. 'Stars & Tilt are in y-o-y double-digit decline, i-poker is way, way down, so the market must be heading south.

The French & Italian scenarios - many many more Countries will follow suit within 5 years - muddies the water, though.

The shape of the industry will change considerably in the next 5 years. The networks will feel the most pain, for sure.

Well don't believe the trade press for a start!! Most of them have no idea what they are on about!!

But seriously don't discount the Italian and French effect. French customers were a huge part of the ipoker network and they've been stripped out entirely from its dot com site - the one you see on pokerscout. Same with ongame who were massive in France, ditto party stars etc etc. Look at the size of the standalone French and Italian networks. So yes it most definitely muddies the waters.

100% agree that things will change considerably in the next 5 years. But they have changed beyond anyone's predictions in the last 5 years too.

There are definitely too many networks. This can't be sustainable long term as the market fragments more. There has to be more M&A. Or simply firms going out of business.

[Da Bookie]

not subtle enough huh!!! lol no hard feelings lol.