Attention all live sickos *DISCUSSION*

[pleno1]

I've played alot of live poker over the last couple of years and now find myself to be the biggest winner in my local casino so far in 2011. I have seen players come in and 3/4/5bet and I really think it isnt suitable for a live passive cash game.

Kind of made this thread because of somethng I remember James Keys talking about a while ago. You spoke about having a limp/limp raising range. Could you kind of talk a little about it and the merits of limping.

Few examples to help you expand.

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep..
Same situation you have 74o
Same situation you have j9s
Same situation you have kq

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere
Same situation you have 77
Same situation you have 22
Same situation you have AQ
Same situation you have a10s

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off
Same situation you have 99
Same situation you have 34s
Same situation you have KJo

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB?
Same situation you have 72o
Same situation you have 88
Same situation you have k2o
Same situation you have A9dd

[Rupert]

Don't think I have an open limp reraising range.  With certain stack sizes I might flat a strongish-very strong hand and backraise jam.

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep.. f
Same situation you have 74o f
Same situation you have j9s c or r
Same situation you have kq r

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere f
Same situation you have 77 c or r
Same situation you have 22 c
Same situation you have AQ r
Same situation you have a10s r

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off r
Same situation you have 99 r
Same situation you have 34s c or f
Same situation you have KJo r

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB? r
Same situation you have 72o f
Same situation you have 88 c
Same situation you have k2o f
Same situation you have A9dd c

should add i've done nothing live in many attempts

[SuuPRlim]

Few examples to help you expand.

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep.. call
Same situation you have 74o call
Same situation you have j9s raise
Same situation you have kq raise

not folding anything otb 200bb's deep

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere call
Same situation you have 77 call
Same situation you have 22 call
Same situation you have AQ raise
Same situation you have a10s raise

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off fold
Same situation you have 99 raise
Same situation you have 34s fold
Same situation you have KJo raise

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB? raise -BIG RAISE
Same situation you have 72o call although shud 100% fold
Same situation you have 88 call
Same situation you have k2o call
Same situation you have A9dd call

"Kind of made this thread because of somethng I remember James Keys talking about a while ago. You spoke about having a limp/limp raising range. Could you kind of talk a little about it and the merits of limping."

I limp a ton in live games for three reasons.
Firstly, vs a far weaker average player and a far deeper average stack (usually normally 300-400bb's effective in my local games) there is a ton of value to seeing flops.
Secondly people's ranges to limp behind are often exactly the same as to call an open, so with a ton of marginal hands there is no point in raising because your Cbets generally have far less success so unless you have a hand that flops ridic well there isn't much need o have initiative in the hand
Thirdly, makes you fit in to the live poker scene a bit more if your limping along a bit, people get all aggro if you raise every other hand so if you're a reg in the game you're a bit more "one of them" if you're doing a bit of limping, people do stuff like show you cards, and fold a little more to you pre-flop, people will prolly flame this last point but it defo matters in Leeds.

On Limp 3betting, I went through a stage of limp 3betting  and such hands UTG and showing them down so I could try do it with AA/KK more - problem is often they get limped round which is a bit sucky, I still like the play with hands the have reasonable flop equity because you open limping and it checking through isn't a massive deal, and limp 3betting is a nice way to ISO someone, rather than opening, having 5 callers and having to c/f.

You get some squeeze machines live as well, so sometimes I limp behind    ,   and    and 3bet serial squeezebox's just because i prefer it to having to 12x open to try narrow the field after a few limpers lol and again if it limps round and you play a 6way pot just for set value with those hands it isn't the end of the world. Would consider  as well for this,  and  are too strong and  is too weak imo. Doing this with  would be a disaster purely because of how many dominated hands they will limp behind/limp call.

[Rupert]

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off r
Same situation you have 99 r
Same situation you have 34s c or f
Same situation you have KJo r

oops thought we were CO f/r/f/r

[dizeeG]

I'll test out some of theories this weekend at leeds since raising too often gets people upset n they call any 2 tgey would limp with in the end and limping makes u blend in a lot more n u get paid when u hit in leeds alot too!!

[DMorgan]

In very passive games then having  a limp reraise range isn't really going to do you any good because people are not attacking these limped pots without a big hand

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep.. fold
Same situation you have 74o fold
Same situation you have j9s call
Same situation you have kq raise

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere fold if we're 100bbs, call if 200
Same situation you have 77 call
Same situation you have 22 calll
Same situation you have AQ raise
Same situation you have a10s raise but flatting A9s

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off fold
Same situation you have 99 raise
Same situation you have 34s fold
Same situation you have KJo raise or fold, pretty close. Folding KTo

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB? raise
Same situation you have 72o fold
Same situation you have 88 call
Same situation you have k2o fold
Same situation you have A9dd call

[SuuPRlim]

I'll test out some of theories this weekend at leeds since raising too often gets people upset n they call any 2 tgey would limp with in the end and limping makes u blend in a lot more n u get paid when u hit in leeds alot too!!

Yeah, i mean upsetting people might be the wrong word, but when you play games regularly it's best to try appear as ordinary as possible

You playing Gala? We payed together before?

[skolsuper]

Sigh at winning* something live meaning I must limp all the time... Post this question on the blackbelt forum FAO Neil "Badbeat" Channing, that should get you the answers you're looking for

*[ ]

[pleno1]

Sigh at winning* something live meaning I must limp all the time... Post this question on the blackbelt forum FAO Neil "Badbeat" Channing, that should get you the answers you're looking for

*[ ]

It's late and I don't understand

[AlexMartin]

In very passive games then having  a limp reraise range isn't really going to do you any good because people are not attacking these limped pots without a big hand

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep.. fold
Same situation you have 74o fold
Same situation you have j9s call
Same situation you have kq raise

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere fold if we're 100bbs, call if 200
Same situation you have 77 call
Same situation you have 22 calll
Same situation you have AQ raise
Same situation you have a10s raise but flatting A9s

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off fold
Same situation you have 99 raise
Same situation you have 34s fold
Same situation you have KJo raise or fold, pretty close. Folding KTo

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB? raise
Same situation you have 72o fold
Same situation you have 88 call
Same situation you have k2o fold
Same situation you have A9dd call

this , spoton imo

[cambridgealex]

I'll reply without seeing other replies as I don't wanna be biased. I'll say what I actually do, because I think I have leaks here in some of these spots.

4 limpers, you have 83s on button 200bb deep..limp
Same situation you have 74o fold
Same situation you have j9s raise
Same situation you have kq raise

Limp UTG, you are mp1 and have 89 with 1 good player in the c/o and Spanish fish elsewhere fold
Same situation you have 77 raise
Same situation you have 22 raise
Same situation you have AQ raise
Same situation you have a10s raise

You are UTG with 74s in a 9 handed game with 1 good player in blinds and one good player in the cut off fold
Same situation you have 99 raise
Same situation you have 34s close between raising and folding
Same situation you have KJo raise

3 limpers with 120bb+ effective, you have AQ in the SB? raise
Same situation you have 72o fold
Same situation you have 88 raise
Same situation you have k2o fold
Same situation you have A9dd close between limping and raising

[cambridgealex]

why are we not raising 77? Doesn't rele flop well mulitway, much rather have the pot 2-4handed in position with the initiative. Same for 22 but slightly more understandable to limp along.

[SuuPRlim]

why are we not raising 77? Doesn't rele flop well mulitway, much rather have the pot 2-4handed in position with the initiative. Same for 22 but slightly more understandable to limp along.

feels to me like you raise and get called in 5 spots behind and have to c/f a bunch of flops.

raising might be best though I dont really know lol

[neverbluff67]

are there antes? pretty important

[SuuPRlim]

are there antes? pretty important

lol tourney donk