200NL HU

[pleno1]

Playing 2 tables and hes ran like god against me winning 5 flips or something. Think that he will think I'm on tilt, he sat out vs me before and i searched and sat him and he sigh played. Thoughts on everything including his play pls.

Full Tilt Poker Game #28911939980: Table Cramp (heads up, deep) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:26:01 ET - 2011/03/10
Seat 1: jackbauerz ($200)
Seat 2: pads1161 ($264.50)
jackbauerz posts the small blind of $1
pads1161 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [ ]
jackbauerz raises to $6
pads1161 calls $4
*** FLOP *** [ ]
pads1161 checks
jackbauerz bets $9
pads1161 raises to $27.50
jackbauerz has 15 seconds left to act
jackbauerz calls $18.50
*** TURN *** [ ] []
pads1161 bets $42
jackbauerz has 15 seconds left to act
jackbauerz calls $42
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
pads1161 checks
jackbauerz has 15 seconds left to act
jackbauerz bets $124.50, and is all in
pads1161 calls $124.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jackbauerz shows [ ] a pair of Eights
pads1161 shows [ ] a pair of Eights
pads1161 wins the pot ($399.50) with a pair of Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $400 | Rake $0.50
Board: [ ]
Seat 1: jackbauerz (small blind) showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 2: pads1161 (big blind) showed [ ] and won ($399.50) with a pair of Eights

[Whollyflush]

the c/r is really bad. Leading or c/c are better, since theres a ton of bad turn cards. Also if you c/r tptk on this board, ure going to be very unbalanced. Not a problem against droolers, but any1 with a few cells will be able to take advantage and make your life differcult.

After that yeh your line is fine. I have no idea what hes doing OTR.

[pleno1]

Yeah, I never c/r these kind of hands ever but vs this player it was v.good. We had different dynamics going on and yeah, v.happy with flop vs this guy.

I guess I should have named the title river play 200nlhu because hard to describe flop dynamics, but then again I guess it contributes to the river.

I couldn't work out if it was a super thin value shove on river to get me to call 56,75 kinda hands or if he was just clicking buttons.

If you are in opponents shoes what do you jam the river for as value and what as bluff and do you have both bluffs and value in your river shoving range and is 9x a standard jam for value on the river?

[TheFallen]

river jamming ranges are the most dynamic dependant thing i can think of in poker so its hard to say.

i would say the river jam is 100% a bluff by him. It looks like u binked a 9 or something and if i had a missed draw with zero showdown vlaue here i would jam it too. i would also jam as low as 1010 a reasonable amount of the time in these levelling spots. I think his play on every street is bad but perhaps his river shove is the least bad once he gets there.

i agree with the point about the flop c.r. being too light even with crazy dynamics. Lots of the time the draw binks and you have to turn ur hand into a bluff and have no idea what your facing. i love a c.r here with A9 on 945 flop.

[pleno1]

yeah i agree that a9 on 954 is alooooot better than a8 here. very good point.

also although he thinks that my range will contain more draws because its a flushdraw board I am actually alot less likely to c/r on this board as a bluff because I know he will give me less credit.  So I can rep lots of missed draws later on and get heroed by a bunch of hands, he may even defend flop with ace high. With this above statement maybe I should jam the river for value, I guess he would call?  I'm a little confused about what you say about turning my hand into a bluff when the draws miss though, I think this is v.v. unlikely to happen.

I'm also intrigued that you think he played bad on every street how would you play flop/turn if you were in villans pos?

[SuuPRlim]

I think his river jam might be perfectly fine (could well be a terrible play in this vacuum) pot is $151 and he has $124.50 back and he has near the bottom of his range, whenever I get to this spot with the bottom 20%ish of my range I pretty much always jam.

Problem with this play in this specific spot is that you should jam most of your air OTR so prolly have a pretty wide c/c range, you need to be folding ~70% and calling worse every so often to show a profit specifically here so this play in a vacuum is pretty likely -EV but I think for his overall range its a kind of mandatory rive jam

[pleno1]

I think his river jam might be perfectly fine (could well be a terrible play in this vacuum) pot is $151 and he has $124.50 back and he has near the bottom of his range, whenever I get to this spot with the bottom 20%ish of my range I pretty much always jam.

Problem with this play in this specific spot is that you should jam most of your air OTR so prolly have a pretty wide c/c range, you need to be folding ~70% and calling worse every so often to show a profit specifically here so this play in a vacuum is pretty likely -EV but I think for his overall range its a kind of mandatory rive jam

which better hands fold, which worse hands call? I think none to both so jam seems bad to me but idk I may be wrong. I was expecting him to have spades and just hoped he didnt have Jxss, when I saw his hand turn over I immediately though sighhhhh two purrrrrr but then realised owaitorly?

[outragous76]

bonnie tyler

[pleno1]

bonnie tyler

I'm 22..

[pleno1]

Those were the days my friend? Or, Totak Eclispe of the heart?

[SuuPRlim]

I think his river jam might be perfectly fine (could well be a terrible play in this vacuum) pot is $151 and he has $124.50 back and he has near the bottom of his range, whenever I get to this spot with the bottom 20%ish of my range I pretty much always jam.

Problem with this play in this specific spot is that you should jam most of your air OTR so prolly have a pretty wide c/c range, you need to be folding ~70% and calling worse every so often to show a profit specifically here so this play in a vacuum is pretty likely -EV but I think for his overall range its a kind of mandatory rive jam

which better hands fold, which worse hands call? I think none to both so jam seems bad to me but idk I may be wrong. I was expecting him to have spades and just hoped he didnt have Jxss, when I saw his hand turn over I immediately though sighhhhh two purrrrrr but then realised owaitorly?

I did say this is prolly a pretty bad vacuum play, you dont fold or call worse anywhere near often enough to show profit here, but for his overall range in a lengthy HU game if's he jamming missed spades here he should be jamming this too imo

[outragous76]

get cape,wear cape, fly  (for the 22 year olds itt)

[pleno1]

I think his river jam might be perfectly fine (could well be a terrible play in this vacuum) pot is $151 and he has $124.50 back and he has near the bottom of his range, whenever I get to this spot with the bottom 20%ish of my range I pretty much always jam.

Problem with this play in this specific spot is that you should jam most of your air OTR so prolly have a pretty wide c/c range, you need to be folding ~70% and calling worse every so often to show a profit specifically here so this play in a vacuum is pretty likely -EV but I think for his overall range its a kind of mandatory rive jam

which better hands fold, which worse hands call? I think none to both so jam seems bad to me but idk I may be wrong. I was expecting him to have spades and just hoped he didnt have Jxss, when I saw his hand turn over I immediately though sighhhhh two purrrrrr but then realised owaitorly?

I did say this is prolly a pretty bad vacuum play, you dont fold or call worse anywhere near often enough to show profit here, but for his overall range in a lengthy HU game if's he jamming missed spades here he should be jamming this too imo

Really?  interesting (said in normal voice incase everyone thinks i troll 24/7) its a nice river concept but quite hard for me to think about.

[pleno1]

get cape,wear cape, fly  (for the 22 year olds itt)

lol naming random bands to level me? no idea what you're on about but sure its fantastic bants.

[SuuPRlim]

I think his river jam might be perfectly fine (could well be a terrible play in this vacuum) pot is $151 and he has $124.50 back and he has near the bottom of his range, whenever I get to this spot with the bottom 20%ish of my range I pretty much always jam.

Problem with this play in this specific spot is that you should jam most of your air OTR so prolly have a pretty wide c/c range, you need to be folding ~70% and calling worse every so often to show a profit specifically here so this play in a vacuum is pretty likely -EV but I think for his overall range its a kind of mandatory rive jam

which better hands fold, which worse hands call? I think none to both so jam seems bad to me but idk I may be wrong. I was expecting him to have spades and just hoped he didnt have Jxss, when I saw his hand turn over I immediately though sighhhhh two purrrrrr but then realised owaitorly?

I did say this is prolly a pretty bad vacuum play, you dont fold or call worse anywhere near often enough to show profit here, but for his overall range in a lengthy HU game if's he jamming missed spades here he should be jamming this too imo

Really?  interesting (said in normal voice incase everyone thinks i troll 24/7) its a nice river concept but quite hard for me to think about.

well perhaps in this specific spot a check back is best - even though he rarely has the best hand once you check the river, but this about it in overall theory

lets say the board is   and you've taken the exact same line, if he is jamming is air, chking back marginal showdown ( ,   etc) and jamming all strong value (as most people would) then he can't really a)expect it to get through all that often when he jams the bottom of his range, or b) value bet stuff like   or   , and should prolly chk back   aswel....

if he jams the middle section of his range as well he'll take you off hands with equal value, and get hero'd more often cos he's jamming the river with a wider, less polarised range.

like I say tho, in the example you've given I think its almost certainly a -EV shove in this vacuum