Grand National.

[RED-DOG]

I'm not an animal rights campaigner, a happy clapper, a tree hugger, a veggie, or a shrinking violet, (Appologies to anyone who falls into any or all of those worthy categories, no offence intended) but I can't help thinking that it's a bit unfair to make horse run a race when it stands a reasonable chance of being killed.

[DaveShoelace]

Is the National more dangerous than any other race? I know nowt about horse racing, its the biggest in terms of number of horses I take it?

[Laxie]

Completely agree.  Sure some of them have the ability to get over the jumps, but when nearly half the field fails to complete the course and two die - something's very wrong there.

[Biddy 62]

Bet the organisers are scratching their heads. Much lower fences but loads of fallers over the 3 days. Just heard a jockey is in a coma from a fall.

[TightEnd]

Hard ground, they go faster. Bigger impact falls when they do tip up. Also there are horses in the national, no hopers and poor jumpers, that shouldn't be running

[Matt.NFFC.]

Firmer ground, very warm day = casualties.

Mind you, having said that, if it had been a mud bath even less would have finished, and the ones that did would most probably be walking over the line.

[Skippy]

It's a weird one this.

In the 70s and 80s, 3-5 horses died every time during the National. The race was on it's last legs- if you owned a decent animal, you wouldn't let it run because of the high chance of it being killed. They were down to starting the race with 20 runners at one point. These days they could have 80 runners if they hadn't capped it at 40.

Since the 90s they have progressively made the fences easier. There hasn't been a death for 4-5 years now until this year.

Now I'm not saying that people should or shouldn't be concerned about dead horses. However it is interesting that lots of people seem to be concerned about the horse deaths this year, when, statistically, the National is the safest it's ever been. It's an interesting shot into people's psyche that there has been this big outcry this year. I think it is because of a) people's ever changing relationship with animals, b)  the explicit shots of the dead horse under the canvas next to one of the fences and c) notably, the shock after several fatality free years.

[Skippy]

Also there are horses in the national, no hopers and poor jumpers, that shouldn't be running

That's not true any more. There are maybe 100 or so horses that wanted to go, and only the best 40 according to the handicapper get in.

[TightEnd]

b) above is definitely true. Felt very uncomfortable to watch them miss two fences second time round, only uncomfortable as two horses were lying stricken on the landing side of the fences. First time I can remember seeing that.

Anyway, as the posts above say, its a combination of circumstances

[Skippy]

When nearly half the field fails to complete.

That's always been true and that's part of the appeal of the race. The Grand National is popular because it's like a lottery. Any horse can win! You are going to get a winning price greater than 10/1! It's like a scratchcard.

Nobody wants to run an office sweepstake on most horse races (say the Derby), since there are not enough runners, and a few runners have a dramatically greater chance than the rest. Because of the high fences, high number of fallers, and the fact it's a handicap it evens up the playing field a lot.

[Skippy]

b) above is definitely true. Felt very uncomfortable to watch them miss two fences second time round, only uncomfortable as two horses were lying stricken on the landing side of the fences. First time I can remember seeing that.

It's only been the last few years that this has been possible. Around 2007 they put the escape routes around the edge of the fences to help with loose horses like at most race courses. Previously there was no "around the fences", you couldn't get around the course with out going over the fences.

I've no idea what they did with stricken horses in previous years when they couldn't redirect the field around a fence.

[TightEnd]

Also there are horses in the national, no hopers and poor jumpers, that shouldn't be running

That's not true any more. There are maybe 100 or so horses that wanted to go, and only the best 40 according to the handicapper get in.

Yes, but still my point is 10-15 of those 40 are no hopers assuming normal weather conditions (ie as mudbath makes anything possible)

In some cases the desire of the owner to have a day out (with all the perks of being an owner, on the day) overrules commons sense. The two sadly killed horses were both in this category I would maintain

In 14 of the last 15 nationals a horse in the handicap, and with a decent perceived chance beforehand has won.

[Skippy]

Also there are horses in the national, no hopers and poor jumpers, that shouldn't be running

That's not true any more. There are maybe 100 or so horses that wanted to go, and only the best 40 according to the handicapper get in.

Yes, but still my point is 10-15 of those 40 are no hopers assuming normal weather conditions (ie as mudbath makes anything possible)

In some cases the desire of the owner to have a day out (with all the perks of being an owner, on the day) overrules commons sense. The two sadly killed horses were both in this category I would maintain

In 14 of the last 15 nationals a horse in the handicap, and with a decent perceived chance beforehand has won.

All the horses are in the handicap!!!! Look at the card- none of them are even carrying the minimum weight. Besides any horse in the race yesterday the BHB handicapper has judged to be better than at least 40 horses, and all horses that are entered have to have a minimum rating of 110, which while not amazing, is better than some.

[TightEnd]

Blimey you are argumentative. In most nationals horses in the top 40 have are rated less than 10st, and so are running out of the handicap

afaik no horse has won the national from outside the handicap since the fences were made easier.

[Karabiner]

Also there are horses in the national, no hopers and poor jumpers, that shouldn't be running

That's not true any more. There are maybe 100 or so horses that wanted to go, and only the best 40 according to the handicapper get in.

Yes, but still my point is 10-15 of those 40 are no hopers assuming normal weather conditions (ie as mudbath makes anything possible)

In some cases the desire of the owner to have a day out (with all the perks of being an owner, on the day) overrules commons sense. The two sadly killed horses were both in this category I would maintain

In 14 of the last 15 nationals a horse in the handicap, and with a decent perceived chance beforehand has won.

All of the horses this year were in the handicap, the bottom weight carrying 10st.2lbs with a rating of 138.

Dooney's Gate had an official rating of 154, and Ornais 140. Both very decent horses especially the former.