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Author Topic: Book review: The Mental Game of Poker by Jared Tendler and, er, Dave Shoelace  (Read 52072 times)
Dewi_cool
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« Reply #90 on: March 16, 2013, 12:52:54 AM »

Try Barry Carter on here he might have an opinion
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« Reply #91 on: March 16, 2013, 01:09:44 AM »

simples, just buy the book, i have gone on a huge upswong since it has sat on my bookcase, the likes of dooby wooby on here have taken down GUKPT's after Ft'ing Sunday majors all on the back of using this book as a mouse mat!

unless you are a plant, it is a no brainer! it pays for itself.
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TightEnd
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« Reply #92 on: March 16, 2013, 08:30:01 AM »

Hi Johnkeen, when the original came out I wrote the review that is on the first post of this thread

I thought it was a decent review!


Not sure if you are aware, but the second book is on pre-order now. I hope to review that too and have some copies for blonde competitions etc
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« Reply #93 on: March 16, 2013, 08:32:54 AM »

Hi John,

I'm the less important coauthor.

As you can see this thread has been merged with a wider discussion that has taken place , so it might answer what you need to know.

Is there anything about the reviews that concern you? A few people have voiced concerns they don't believe the sheer amount of positive reviews but I can assure you they are genuine.

If you have any specific questions about the book -fire away, I'm a regular here.

Cheers

Barry Carter
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« Reply #94 on: March 16, 2013, 09:28:36 AM »

Hi John,

I'm the less important coauthor.

As you can see this thread has been merged with a wider discussion that has taken place , so it might answer what you need to know.

Is there anything about the reviews that concern you? A few people have voiced concerns they don't believe the sheer amount of positive reviews but I can assure you they are genuine.

If you have any specific questions about the book -fire away, I'm a regular here.

Cheers

Barry Carter




Thank you, Tightend, Craig, Dewi and Barry for your replies.
I look forward to reading the review of the next book, hopefully just as succinct.

I have to admit to being curious about some of the reviews on Amazon, Barry. I leave myself

open to be convinced about them.
There are a large number of positive reviews, yes, and there are a large number of 'thumbs

up, this review helped me' attached to some of them, which I think promotes some of them in

the ranking. There have also been some negative reviews, some of which attack the legitimacy

of the other reviews, these were at first replied to by the author, and now have been

removed from Amazon completely.
I suppose it depends a priori on what you classify as a legitimate review to begin with,

although from your post your positive tone seems to suggest that you're saying that the

reviews are definitely all what they seem to be: positive, independent reviews by random

individual readers, unsolicited by the authors or anyone else, and for the most part

unconnected with the authors.
To me, and this is obviously pure opinion and nothing more, the reviews do not seem to be

legitimate.
-the tone and style of the reviews are not what one would expect at all from random

purchasers. They seem to be written in a marketing style, as if purely selling the book,

with hyperbole about the content and results.
-some of the reviews, if you look closely, appear to contain certain nuances which would

suggest they are from the same author. Very obviously some reviews are going to contain the

same style, by accident, but there are some peculiarites that seem to be more than

coincidental.
-that most of the five star reviews have been written by users who have reviewed no other

book. This is despite the reviewer stating that they have read many other poker books. I

guess they've all decided to shy away from Amazon but for this purchase (before and since

purchasing this book)
-that a very high proportion (the majority, like 8, five-starred reviews?) are all submitted

within one week of the 8th of June 2011. By some strange coincidence, four reviewers all

decided independently to submit their reviews on 8th of June 2011 itself.

On the face of it (and I very much look forward to being corrected), the reviews do not seem

to be what they present themselves to be, what they are supposed to be, or, in my opinion,

what they have to be for that kind of review section to work.
I did a bit of reading around the whole idea of this, there is quite a lot of discussion on

the web relating to this whole idea. Where it does occur (and I'm not saying it has here,

just my opinion of how it looks), it is called Sock-puppetry, and there was a large storm on

Amazon and in the press a while back where it emerged that a significant number of authors were fabricating reviews, submitting them alongside their title on Amazon, creating a fraudulent impression in a prospective buyer of independent popularity of the title. Simple system...buyer does not know book nor author, sees a ton of positive reviews, hands over their twentyfive quid, author is delighted, buyer is left crying into the pulp that does not seem to live up to the hitherto=thought independent hyperbole. The authors were also caught, and admitted to, submitting concomitant negative reviews about books that competed with their own.
People can have differing evaluations of how bad a thing sockpuppetry is. Me, I tend to fall in the 'fraud' camp, a deliberate attempt to deceive with the intention of pecuniary gain.
I'm of course not saying that this is necessarily what happened here, I'm relating it to sockpuppetry in general.
So I guess my question is...in light of the above observations...Are all of these reviews of the book what they appear to be, random, unsolicited opinions by independent purchasers, unknown to the authors or publishers?
i know your work and like you and your work, by the way, and have no axe to grind at all, I would prefer it if the reviews were all above board. I'm just ridiculously curious, that's all.
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« Reply #95 on: March 16, 2013, 09:42:58 AM »

I understand completely, I am also skeptical of review on amazon generally. Especially when those reviews are one day after the book was released.

I swear on my mother that we never fabricated any reviews. Jared and I both know that the fallout of them being discovered disingenuous is worse than any benefits it would provide. The only thing we did was occasionally reply to positive tweets on twitter by saying 'thanks, it would be great if you could post a review where you bought it from' etc.

The best thing you can do is exactly what you have, asking fellow poker players. This thread is a great start, we also have a commercial thread on 2+2 which is full of unbiased feedback from tons of players. (Not linking as its a rival forum but a quick google search will get you there)

If you do go on to purchase the book, I'd love to hear, warts and all, what your views on the reviews are after you read it.

Any more questions I'm happy to answer, so post away!
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« Reply #96 on: March 16, 2013, 09:45:38 AM »

Good morning John, my reply last night was not that informative. Just to let you know I have not read any of said reviews, but my own experience of the book is nothing but positive. Really looking forward to the follow up as I am not sure what direction it will take, despite reading Barry's heads up on topics discussed.

I would recommend this book to anyone with an interest in poker, on face value it does appear a tad pricey but as mentioned it really will benefit your outlook/mindset. Good luck at the tables and let us know how you go on.
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tikay
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« Reply #97 on: March 16, 2013, 09:46:09 AM »


Dave, to save me from having to trawl through 2+2 once again, after a week of bleeding eyes from the extraordinary ISPT thread there, please feel free to link to the 2+2 thread.
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« Reply #98 on: March 16, 2013, 10:00:56 AM »

Good morning Mr Keen.

Good grief, quite a Post that.

I make a rule to stay away from contentious threads where possible, but I'd like to add some balance to your Post.

I know both Co-Authors, but more so Barry Carter, aka "Dave Shoelace" here. He is by trade a Poker Journo, & is probably the best, & most pre-eminent of his type.

He has previously worked for PokerNews, but these days plies his trade at Poker Startegy.com, which is the largest whatever of it's kind on earth.

He is as straight as a die, or at least in my dealings with him over many years. I know he sweated buckets to write, & then promote the book.

On the downside as to his character, he hails from Sheffield, but we should not hold that against him.

Anyway, irrespective of all that, I would tell you that no poker book, ever, that I am aware of, has been more beneficial to more players. "Tilt" is a weird thing, many poker players, to their detriment, seem proud to say they tilt at the slightest issue, no matter how small, but it is a truly destructive emotion for a poker player. No book has ever addressed it as successfully as this has.

I have a very small role in the poker world which includes trying to help newbies at the game, most of whom suffer from tilt, & I know with certainty, & wearing numerous hats, of literally hundreds of players of my acquaintance who have benefitted from it.

On this Forum, there is a chap, a stubborn sod, named Rupinder Bedi, ("george2loose" here) & it not only changed his game, I think it changed his life. Some of us even like him now. Feel free to ask him yourself.

I have no idea what means Barry used to promote his book on Amazon, & these days there are some interesting ways to promote stuff. I can tell you, though, that the book is the standard work on the subject, & is without parallel, at least to my personal knowledge.
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« Reply #99 on: March 16, 2013, 10:02:39 AM »

Cheers Tikay

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/173/commercial-marketplace/mental-game-poker-new-book-jared-tendler-get-free-audiobook-1053407/

This is a commercial thread, so we pay for it, but negative posts do not get deleted.
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« Reply #100 on: March 16, 2013, 10:04:47 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) Smiley
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« Reply #101 on: March 16, 2013, 10:20:59 AM »

Really Evocative read for both Poker and Life

Helped my mindset immensely
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« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2013, 10:54:26 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) Smiley


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.
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tikay
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« Reply #103 on: March 16, 2013, 11:02:30 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) Smiley


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.

You don't want to take much notice of him, he's extremely old for a start.

I do recall the vidoe though, & his initial reservations about the Content. He then read the book - with an open mind - & has since stated, on numerous media platforms, including magazine articles, videos, TV & forums, that he thinks the book is superb.

And before we get in a tangled web in this really most peculiar thread, & as I'm pretty sure you already know.......I am that man. 
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« Reply #104 on: March 16, 2013, 11:05:49 AM »

Thanks for the kind words Craig and Tikay (the cheques are in the post) Smiley


You're even soliciting thumbs up in your avatar! :p

Rereading, I'm wondering if I came across as a bit harsh and I'm considering just deleting my post. Sometimes I just say what I see. (or think I see).

I am makin my way through the book, a lot of interesting points about learning in it. I can feel my inner inchworm growing...

I have some queries about certain aspects of the book, and its approach, now is probably not the time. I have watched and read a lot of stuff by the author online, I'll admit from a critical (in the positive sense) viewpoint. One of the first videos I saw was from some guy called Tony Kendall who expressed his skeptiicism about the approach, I'm yet to finalize my thoughts on it all. I did start a journal of 'ideas and reflections' on all the issues I thought Tendler and Barry had brought up, and I ended up reading around the ideas quite significantly. Desperate to see what Volume 2 has to say.

You don't want to take much notice of him, he's extremely old for a start.

I do recall the vidoe though, & his initial reservations about the Content. He then read the book - with an open mind - & has since stated, on numerous media platforms, including magazine articles, videos, TV & forums, that he thinks the book is superb.

And before we get in a tangled web in this really most peculiar thread, & as I'm pretty sure you already know.......I am that man. 

I'm sorry, your back is to me in your avatar. I was confusing you with the dark-haired gentleman with the moustache.
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