Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[boldie]

Quick, and possibly silly, question but;

What has FT done with all the players money that they hold? How come they can't pay everybody back?

[Bongo]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

[boldie]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

So, in effect, Lederer is like Madoff?

[DungBeetle]

The problem is that, as far as I know, full tilt did not segregate the players' funds into a client account.  The impact of this is if FT were to go bust, then the punters would become general creditors as far as an administrator is concerned, and thus will get the same recovery rate as all the other creditors.  The recovery rate can vary between 0% and 100% depending on what has been going on behind the scenes.  A potential factor, for example, which could reduce the recovery rate would be if the IRS successfully brought a claim against FT for unpaid tax (I don't know whether this is in the pipeline or not).  If this was the case effectively the punters assets would get diluted with the need to also pay the IRS.  Similarly if FT have a large outstanding trade creditor (eg advertising) this would have the same impact.

In addition this process can take years.  I should point out this is what happens in the UK, so US law might well be different, in which case the above is as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

[JK]

Got my transaction through today. Took 3 days? Must be because they have nothing else to do lol.

GIQ etc, i know. Just pleased x)

[SuperJez]

Got my transaction through today. Took 3 days? Must be because they have nothing else to do lol.

GIQ etc, i know. Just pleased x)

well done, run better imo

[Spraggs]

Got my transaction through today. Took 3 days? Must be because they have nothing else to do lol.

GIQ etc, i know. Just pleased x)

ive got 2 cashouts that were processing before this shit happened.

were yours approved before they went down, or were they still processing?

Was yours for a small amount? mine is for quite a lot.. u think this would make any difference?

[Bongo]

He said earlier in the thread that his had been approved before they went down.

[Spraggs]

bla, ok so it wouldnt have even been Full tilt dealing with it.

so not really that realtive

[JK]

bla, ok so it wouldnt have even been Full tilt dealing with it.

so not really that realtive

At the time, I had no clue who dealt with it or what the process was. It was approved the day before the shutdown. It was for a relatively small amount but still almost a months wages lol

[Longy]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

So, in effect, Lederer is like Madoff?

No not really, firstly how much Lederer has been aware/cause of this mess is unknown. He is not the CEO (Ray Bitar is) and that is why he is hasn't been arrested by the US authorities. Also this isn't really a Ponzi scheme imo, more total mis management, I think the majority of people involved with Tilt had good intentions just totally incompetent.

[Amatay]

Click to see full-size image.

[marcro]

In some cases they never had it and there are rumours they spent some of the rest on marketing etc. Fractional Reserve poker, it's great!

So, in effect, Lederer is like Madoff?

No not really, firstly how much Lederer has been aware/cause of this mess is unknown. He is not the CEO (Ray Bitar is) and that is why he is hasn't been arrested by the US authorities. Also this isn't really a Ponzi scheme imo, more total mis management, I think the majority of people involved with Tilt had good intentions just totally incompetent.

I find it very difficult to believe that Lederer and the other players involved with Full Tilt were not aware of the situation, particularly the fact that players accounts were not segregated.  Also, they had to question where is the money coming from for the marketing expenses, FT Pros and the millions they were pocketing.  I was amazed that people continued to play on FT after it was made known that they spent the money that should have been in the players accounts.  Also, I question how can people still think that people like Lederer had good intentions but he was simply incompetent.

[GreekStein]

Hmmm from what I've heard I'm not sure I'd say they all had good intentions longy.

Howard and co did lots of things they shouldn't have.

Eli elezra joked on tv about how many accounts he had. You could see from howard's face that he knew.

Patrik antonius also had several accounts. Doubt he was the only person within the crew that knew about it.

Benyamine was on the fiddle with a ftp member of staff too.

The selling of 100% accts isn't on either.

these things just don't happen on other sites. ftp are a disgrace. I'm gutted I played so much there and gave the crooked fks my custom.

[Bongo]

Cos, how do you know they don't?

Marcro, not many in the community questioned where FTP's marketing money was coming from so it doesn't seem that obvious. Are you talking about a situation prior to Black Friday where it was known that FTP had spent player's money?