Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[pleno1]

i got a gold star.

yay.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Poker software is hard. Really hard to get right.

And yet this doesn't seem to be a factor in any network/site's priorities, or in any way linked to their ongoing success.

Boss still exists and is largely the same garbage as it was 7 years ago, yet half of the sites nowadays seem to be on this network. iPoker is another big network with less than ideal software, although it's a world away from being as bad as Boss.

Tribeca, the old Paradise software, Crypto (after they imitated Stars) have all gone, and Full Tilt (admittedly for different reasons) might never see the light of day again.  Even Party have forced people away from the old skin by not supporting the new features they develop.  Every single one of them were light years ahead of trying to play more than multiple tables on Boss.

So tilting.

[redarmi]

The problem is with the kind of companies that we are talking about here.  They are almost all gambling companies that had existing customer bases that they thought that they could  make risk free money through poker but what they have found is that their usual punters have £x to lose on a weekly or monthly basis and don't really care whether they lose it through betting on sports, slots or playing poker.  It is all the same to them and it is just a price that they pay for their gambling enjoyment.  If they didn't play a poker tournament they would watch a football match and have a bet on it.  What the gambling firms didn't realise though is that it isn't all the same for them because a guy that bets on football and loses £20 loses all £20 to them but a poker player that loses £20 loses, for example, £10 to them in the rake and £10 to good players so poker isn't a good "add on" product for a lot of these firms.  They were so worried about not wanting to take risk in their sports products that they thought poker was an easy win but what they didn't realise is that they get paid a premium for taking that risk and in poker there were plenty of people happy to get paid that risk premium.  Of course some firms, Sky being a fairly good example actually, understood that if poker was to work for them then they needed to get a good loyal following all of its own and to market that product as a stand alone rather than just something that can be put in the corner and forgotten about whilst it brings in the readies like a roulette machine in a betting shop.

[tikay]

The problem is with the kind of companies that we are talking about here.  They are almost all gambling companies that had existing customer bases that they thought that they could  make risk free money through poker but what they have found is that their usual punters have £x to lose on a weekly or monthly basis and don't really care whether they lose it through betting on sports, slots or playing poker.  It is all the same to them and it is just a price that they pay for their gambling enjoyment.  If they didn't play a poker tournament they would watch a football match and have a bet on it.  What the gambling firms didn't realise though is that it isn't all the same for them because a guy that bets on football and loses £20 loses all £20 to them but a poker player that loses £20 loses, for example, £10 to them in the rake and £10 to good players so poker isn't a good "add on" product for a lot of these firms.  They were so worried about not wanting to take risk in their sports products that they thought poker was an easy win but what they didn't realise is that they get paid a premium for taking that risk and in poker there were plenty of people happy to get paid that risk premium.  Of course some firms, Sky being a fairly good example actually, understood that if poker was to work for them then they needed to get a good loyal following all of its own and to market that product as a stand alone rather than just something that can be put in the corner and forgotten about whilst it brings in the readies like a roulette machine in a betting shop.

And don't forget migration across from poker to the other products in the family, & vice-versa.  In that sense, poker is still a good driver.

[AlunB]

The problem is with the kind of companies that we are talking about here.  They are almost all gambling companies that had existing customer bases that they thought that they could  make risk free money through poker but what they have found is that their usual punters have £x to lose on a weekly or monthly basis and don't really care whether they lose it through betting on sports, slots or playing poker.  It is all the same to them and it is just a price that they pay for their gambling enjoyment.  If they didn't play a poker tournament they would watch a football match and have a bet on it.  What the gambling firms didn't realise though is that it isn't all the same for them because a guy that bets on football and loses £20 loses all £20 to them but a poker player that loses £20 loses, for example, £10 to them in the rake and £10 to good players so poker isn't a good "add on" product for a lot of these firms.  They were so worried about not wanting to take risk in their sports products that they thought poker was an easy win but what they didn't realise is that they get paid a premium for taking that risk and in poker there were plenty of people happy to get paid that risk premium.  Of course some firms, Sky being a fairly good example actually, understood that if poker was to work for them then they needed to get a good loyal following all of its own and to market that product as a stand alone rather than just something that can be put in the corner and forgotten about whilst it brings in the readies like a roulette machine in a betting shop.

Great post.

[AlunB]

Alun, it's because making a better proposition for the players (though better software, for example) is expensive and time-consuming, whereas doing a bigger bonus or offer is quick and has the illusion of cheapness, so that's what sites traditionally do.

Historically, yes, now, I don't think so.

What did Party do in response to Tilt going (temporarily?) out of business?

1-0 to you. They upped the rake, via a rake-free Tourney offer. Temporarily......

Are you assuming that Tilt will return? How, & in what form, or guise?

Anyway, enough for now, (for me) I gotta work Online tonight from 7pm until Midnight, & I've been here since 6am, so power-nap awaits. Loving the debate, excellent.

Some people at Tilt seem very confident of its return. Why, I have no idea. I wouldn't be.

I would be amazed if someone didn't buy its software at the very least though.

[pleno1]

My sources say it's going to be back, not sure when though. FWIH, Jungle sold 6m of Tilt $ to someone at Tilt for 0.85/$1

[redarmi]

FWIH, Jungle sold 6m of Tilt $ to someone at Tilt for 0.85/$1

That is a really interesting deal for a poker player from a game theory perspective.

[Sheriff Fatman]

FWIH, Jungle sold 6m of Tilt $ to someone at Tilt for 0.85/$1

That is a really interesting deal for a poker player from a game theory perspective.

Dubai made a similar offer on here when Tilt first went offline as I recall, although I suspect he didn't anticipate anyone with a $6m roll taking him up on it!

[Sheriff Fatman]

FWIH, Jungle sold 6m of Tilt $ to someone at Tilt for 0.85/$1

That is a really interesting deal for a poker player from a game theory perspective.

Dubai made a similar offer on here when Tilt first went offline as I recall, although I suspect he didn't anticipate anyone with a $6m roll taking him up on it!

Similar, but a slight difference in rates:

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=52905.msg1392720#msg1392720


Clearly the Tilt person had a fair amount of confidence in their return (or more likely in his/her ability to get funds out somehow!)

[DaveShoelace]

If anyone wants my WSOP fantasy winnings, currently on Full Tilt ($120 I think but will have to check) at $0.8/$1, they are welcome to it.

[dik9]

Just a few moments ago, Full Tilt Poker released an "exclusive" statement to Pokernews.com. Here it is:

"Dublin, Ireland (August 22, 2011) - On August 16, Irish based Pocket Kings Ltd., brand executor for the Full Tilt Poker moniker, concluded the exclusivity period of negotiations with their current potential investor.

While Pocket Kings Ltd. plans to continue discussions with its current investor, the company has now begun negotiations with additional potential investors to conclude the sale/partnership of the Full Tilt Poker brand and its assets.

Full Tilt Poker apologizes for its lack of communication with its customers over the last month and a half, but it has been grappling with unexpected and complex legal and financial issues arising from Black Friday and its aftermath. In addition, the company has had to be circumspect about disclosing the progress of negotiations with potential investors because there is often a requirement of strict confidentiality.

To the extent that it can do so without jeopardizing future opportunities, Full Tilt Poker will strive to have better communication with its customers going forward. Full Tilt Poker's number one priority remains the same: to secure an infusion of capital to repay all of its worldwide customers."

Source: Pokernews.com - Full Tilt Poker Issues Exclusive Statement Regarding Investors

[boldie]

IOW; The "potential investor" told them to naff off and they're now scrambling desperately to find someone else.

[TightEnd]

From E Gaming Review

Any takeover of Full Tilt Poker (FTP) would likely require a change of management as well as one of ownership, a lawyer representing the company has told eGaming Review.

Discussions are still ongoing between FTP and a number of potential unknown bidders as the company looks to secure an investment before the resumption of its hearing with the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) scheduled to take place by 15 September.

Despite its exclusivity agreement coming to a close in recent weeks, the original investor which came forward following FTP’s licence suspension is still the “furthest along”, according to Jeff Ifrah, one of several attorneys from different firms called upon to represent the operator.

The investor in question is, to date, the only one that has entered into discussions with the United States Department of Justice, with a settlement seemingly a necessary precursor to any takeover, although other parties have reportedly expressed varying degrees of interest. The acquisition of the operator, however, has been delayed as the date for the resumption of FTP’s adjourned hearing edges ever closer.

“Everyone has their eye on that date, nobody wants to come to September 15th and not have a deal which is either finalised or close to finalisation to the point that it can be shared with Alderney and result in the extension of that date,” Ifrah said.

Discussing the future of Full Tilt following any potential investment, Ifrah explained that “The regulator has made its concern about prior management known, and obviously I think that any investor would want to adhere to those concerns and eliminate those concerns.”

“I’m not directly involved in any of those discussions but I assume if everything goes to plan then the announcement will bring not just a new owner and new investor but also an entirely new management team, and I assume that will all be well-coordinated and closely coordinated with the regulators,” he added.

He went on to assure players that their repayment remains the primary target, adding that “I assume there’s going to be a transition period [after any investment] and we hope that it’s not going to take that long to turn the lights back on and begin facilitating player withdrawals and obviously continue playing.”

Ifrah Law LLC, the law firm at which Ifrah is a partner, is also representing eight poker players belonging to ‘Team Full Tilt,’ in the class action lawsuit filed in late June, and was behind the motion for dismissal filed on behalf of the eight individuals (and five corporate entities) last Friday. A ninth player, John Juanda, is represented by a different firm and has filed a separate motion to dismiss.

Juanda’s legal counsel were unavailable for comment, although Ifrah did explain the timing of the latest filing.

He said: “We are disappointed the acquisition of FTP has been delayed again. A key term of the acquisition is the repayment of players and I do think the acquisition when finalized will moot this law suit. However, until then, there are court deadlines that need to be followed and we will of course adhere to such deadlines while protecting our clients' interests.”

[outragous76]

gg everyones FT monies IMO